1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

UPDATE 86



With the pre-proposals prepared (I decided to submit 2), I returned back to the important stuff… fixing the aft hatch padeyes.

Here is what I wrongly had…



…And as Scott pointed out the padeyes are in the wrong place. So, the first thing I did was draw a circle around one of the existing padeyes…



…Then I copied the circle and the part up out of the way.



… Extruded the circle…



…and used the intersect command to create a new padeye.



I then did something I should have done before and created a separate drawing file for the padeye, because I will need it in the future.



Next, I extruded circles around the existing padeyes…



…And subtracted them, leaving a clean slate.



At this point I moved the padeye created earlier to inside the inner ring, where it should be…



…And rotate/copied and mirrored it to the other locations…



I then decided to add the grab seen in the pictures as well. It is slightly oversized but with a radius of 0.005”, I can’t make it any smaller.



Thanks again Scott for keeping me straight!

And Tom, I know you are busy now, but I would love to hear your thoughts on the part, since you have seen them in person and held them.

CHEERS!!!

[salmon]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

O.K. my thoughts.....my 3D printer does not print details well, depending on orientation of the piece being printed. As an example, the hatch does not come out well, however, if I rotate the item on the table the hatch would come out better (but something else might suffer). Will try that and show.


yuck on the deck hatches with this printer. The side details have a soft edge to them. The deck does not bother me because add a few styrene strips and you can have a great deck. I know it was designed for 1/144 scale so I think it will look great at that scale. The basic shape and ability to build from it, I see possibilities. I will try to print more pieces and post just give me time.

[Guest]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

You need a resin based printer for fine detail (e.g. Formlabs, Objet etc.). The extrusion type are cheaper to run, and I believe produce stronger parts but at the expense of poorer resolution, particularly at the lower cost end.

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Thank again Tom for posting pix of the printed parts. I think subculture is right, but one good thing is that if you can orient the part correctly, you would have a great wooden deck. The striations look like slats, and they appear to be about the right width too.

[tom dougherty]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Just FYI, the two marker buoys on the Batfish are postwar versions. If you are modeling "as it is now" that is fine. If you want the WWII version, then the markers buoys are round, not the more modern elongated buoys.

See below:

Note label & location of rear marker buoy


Aft marker buoy is to the port of the aft torpedo loading hatch

Balao marker buoys, fore & aft. Forward buoy is forward and slightly to the port of the torpedo room hatch

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Now that’s another fine mess you’ve got us in Ollie!

[salmon]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Tom D has said how you need to pick a time period and go with it. I think my best bet is to go with her museum configuration because that is what I have pictures for, and will soon go see.

Early on it was mentioned about picking a time frame in the subs history. If you are going to make her with museum configuration, then go with the pictures, but if you start jumping around in time frame, then you will be mixing up features. Just saying.......
Peace,
Tom

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Well guys… IDEALLY, I would like to build her as she was configured on her 6th patrol in February, 1945, when she sank the 3 Japanese submarines.

But having pictures is really nice, and although I love looking through pictures on the web, it can be (as you probably know) really frustrating. I thought carriers were bad, but fleet boats take it to a new level. I don't think any 2 were alike. I’m kind of slow some times and am good at putting the cart before the horse, but I guess the real question is, “What else was different on Batfish in February, 1945 than on the plans I have and the way she is configured in the museum?” I perhaps should have gotten the answer to this question before I even started but I want to model, not do naval history/architecture research.

So, where does that leave me? Although I have been modeling her thus far mostly as is she is now, I never intended to include the stairways, air ducts, and fencing that she now has. I’m thinking now that perhaps I could do two versions; one in museum configuration and one as she was configured before the museum. What would be really cool, and way ambitious, would be to make a model showing all of her (major) configurations and donate them to the museum. How many models do you think that would be?

For now I’m going to go with the way she is now, without the museum modifications. Thanks Toms for the info and opinion. You guys are great!

Happy Modeling!

[tom dougherty]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Batfish served post WWII during the Korean conflict, as well as an "Auxiliary Research Submarine " (AGSS-310).
The museum is in the later configuration, with all deck weapons long gone and additional modifications made post WWII.

For that patrol (#6), Batfish had the following:
on aft deck: 5'/25 gun
on forward conning tower deck (cigarette deck) 40 mm.
Also see radio masts forward

on aft conning tower 20 mm
SJ and SD radars; rear wire antennas and masts

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

Thanks for the scoop on Batfish’s gun configuration on Patrol #6 Tom. This info will come in handy. Unfortunately, I can’t access the photos on the radio masts forward or the one for the SJ and SD radars, rear wire antennas and masts.

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

UPDATE 87

Good Afternoon Guys!

Progress has continued on detailing the deck, as I moved forward to the escape hatch to the aft engine room. The hatch as it is currently displayed on Batfish is shown below. You can see that it is recessed from the deck.



Further forward on Batfish is another recessed hatch with a cover on it as shown below.



I suspect that hatch to the aft engine room had a similar cover, so that is how I made it. The hatch of concern is shown on the right side of the image of the plan view shown below. Note the “sag” in the drawing, which is why everything looks off alignment.



The profile plans clearly show that the hatch is recessed from the deck.



When I copied the hatch tracings, I had a rather unpleasant surprise; the hatch straddled Parts 7 and 8.





My first thought was to redefine the parts to move the connection aft slightly. Unfortunately after spending quite a bit of time slicing off the connections so that I could reapply them after I recut the hull, AutoCad would not join the parts. So, I used a little modeler’s license and simply moved the hatch forward what amount to 9” on the ship, so that it would be entirelyon Part 7.. SHHHHHH! Don’t tell anybody.



After moving the hatch tracings forward, the first thing I did was to fill in the existing female connection on Part 7 because it would need to be moved in later steps.



Next I copied the hatch from my Escape Hatch drawing to the hatch tracings, and drew the polylines I would need to cut out the access are to the hatch.



The image below shows a rectangle extruded into the deck 0.02” (3” at real scale). Let me explain why 0.02”. Somewhere in the plans I saw that the wood deck slats were 1-1/2” thick. The wood used to redo Batfish at the museum appears to be square so I am assuming that the slats were 1-1/2”square. This would be 0.01” at 1/144 scale so I decided to use a little more artistic license and make the slats 0.02” square on my model. This is the dimension I will use not only for the present cover, but also for the entire wood deck when I get to it. But I digress.



When I subtracted the extrude rectangle, the hatch was still encased in the deck, as I suspected that it would be, with just part of the spring showing (blue).



The extruded rectangle shown below was extruded to the base of the hatch…



Subtracting it revealed the hatch in all its glory.



At this point I decided to beef up the underside of the deck to add support to the part.





As a first test, I made a solid cover and extruded a circle through it...



…And subtracted it.



I then made my 0.02” square slats,…



...Reextruded the circle…



…And subtracted it from the effected slats.



I then added more slats through and underneath the existing slats for added support on the model.





At this point I copied all of the guidelines and solids to a new drawing “EscapeHatch-Recessed” for future use.



In the image below you can see my support beams and how they tie into the hatch for support.



Returning to the model the new cover was not square to the deck due to the slight slope of the deck…



…So I rotated it to be in proper alignment and prepared to make the new connection point. The red circle shows the previous location, the blue circle shows the new.



I then extruded the blue circle into Part 7 and subtracted it.



In the image below, the same red and blue circles are shown on Part 8.



The red circle nearest the part was extruded and subtracted and the blue circles were lofted, filleted…



…And added to the part.



The images below show the final result.







I know that the hatches won’t be brown on the final product; I just made it brown for easier viewing. Also, although I plan to eventually join the hatch and cover to the part, I have yet to do so in case I have to change it based on your comments.

CHEERS!!!

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

UPDATE 88

Good Morning Guys!

Well, I screwed up my sleeping hours again. I fell asleep after dinner in front of the boob tube and woke up at midnight after 6 hours of sleep, so I spent all night modeling. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) I finally obtained some dimensions for the Moto-tug, and mine was off a bit so I spent most of the time doing that. I did get some more detailing doe on the deck however.

I started by copying the outlines for 4 longhorn cleats and another access hatch from the plans…



…To the model.



Next I copied the 4 longhorn cleats to the model using the outlines for location.





After theywere copied to the correct location, I moved them down into the deck and joined them to t he part (Part 5 shown).

I then copied all of the other outlines I had previously traced from the plans to the model…



…And added another pair of longhorn cleats.



Moving forward I next added the capstone, a pair of roller cleats and another longhorn cleat.



The objects were then added to the deck. The capstone and roller cleats were added to Part 2, the longhorn cleat was added to Part1.



More later today I hope.

CHEERS!!!

[scott t]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

You had me scratching my head trying to figure out what the capstone was. Then I figured out you probably meant the
Capstan. The boat is looking really good. Like the covered hatches. One thing on the hatch, the fwd and aft hatch have
the pivoting guide that I believe locates the rescue cable over the hatch when the rescue bouy is released. The other
hatches elsewhere on the boat do not have the pivoting guide for the cable. I don't think you need to remove it unless
you printed in a larger scale. Sorry for being AR.

Scott T

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

UPDATE 89

Sorry about that Scott. I don’t have any idea where capstone came from. I had been listening to Headstones, perhaps that’s where the stone came from. Thanks for the heads up on the pivoting guide. I had wondered what that feature was. Your explanation makes since. AR is a good thing in modeling, otherwise you could throw an abstract piece of plastic together and call it good. OK perhaps that is an exaggeration, and I guess you can be too AR, but this type of information is exactly why I post. I would rather hear it, than not. I learn something, and if I don’t want to change it I don’t have to. THANKS!

In this case, I decided to change it, and while I was at it round the hatch up a little more, so starting with the hatch as it was…



I drew a polyline on a half-section of the hatch body…



…Revolved it…



…And subtracted it.



Next I drew a smaller radius circle and aligned it properly.



I then created a new half-section polyline and revolved it. Note how much higher the top of the hatch is…



…So I moved everything up to “match the hatch”.



At this point I saved the file as “EscapeHatch-WithPivotingGuide” and then saved it again as “EscapeHatch-NoPivotingGuide”. For the former, I joined everything together to complete the hatch…



For the latter, I had to do some dicing and slicing before joining everything together.



These were done at full scale, so later I will have to scale them down and replace the existing hatches as appropriate. I think the only ones that will need to be sliced off are the ones on top of the fairwater on the bridge deck and cigarette deck.

As for yesterday, I didn’t get as much done as I had hoped, but I did make some progress. I must admit it was delayed somewhat by a couple of discoveries. The first discovery occurred when I was suspicious of the close proximity of the next hatch (in yellow below) to the cleat, so I went back to the plans and recopied them. Sure enough, both the cleats (blue) and the hatch (red) were in the wrong location. This made me wonder if any of the other items were located incorrectly, so I went back and checked everything. Fortunately these were the only items that needed to be moved.



So I sliced the cleats off of the deck and separated them. This is when I had my second discovery. Note in the image below how the cleats and cleat bases are different colors. This should not have happened and I wondered why it did. What I discovered is that AutoCad WILL join solids that are NOT actually in contact with each other. When I executed the separate command, which separates items that are joined, but not in contact with each other, it separated them. Because all of my cleats were made using the template, I had to go repair not only the template, but all of the cleats that I had previously attached to the various parts. The good thing about this discovery though is that now I know I have a way of testing to make sure that adjoining parts are actually in contact with one another.



After correcting all of the cleats I turned my attention to the hatch.



This hatch is also a recessed hatch, so I copied the recessed hatch assembly I had previously saved at the proper alignment…



Extruded the top rectangle down to the lower one (I could have lofted between them)…



…Then lowered everything into position…





…And subtracted the extruded rectangle. It didn’t quite remove all of the surface so I extruded the rectangle again, then moved it up slightly and subtracted it again, leaving the covered hatch in plain view.



The hatch of course will need to be swapped out, but because I have yet to attach anything, this should be fairly straight forward.

CHEERS!!!

[rdutnell]

Re: 1/144 Scale USS Batfish (SS310)

UPDATE 90

Good Morning Guys!

I had a lot to get done yesterday so the only modeling time could squeeze in was the late night version. I started by slicing the old hatches off of the top of the fairwater, and putting the new hatch without the pivoting guides in their place.



This is when the AR kicked in. If you look at the image above, you can see that where I have the hatch on the deck doesn’t match the trunk below. So I investigated the situation a little farther and went to the plans and copied the outline of the hatch/trunk to the model as seen in purple in the image below. The red line is the centerline of the trunk.



I know this would drive me crazy if I didn’t fix it, so I did, starting with copying everything to the side to leave the original alone, in case it didn’t go as planned.



The image below shows the area in wireframe looking at the bottom. The smaller red circle surrounds the trunk, the larger one is essentially along the inner face of the bulkhead.



I trimmed these circles, joined the left over bits and made a polyline out of them…



…Which I extruded to the underside of the deck.



Next, I copied it all to the side (up in the image)…



Subtracted the extrusion from the part on the bottom and did the intersect command for the one on top.



Notice in the previous image, that on the top part, the resulting trunk (blue) does not line up with the hatch (magenta). To fix this I moved it and rotated to “match the hatch”.



At this point I moved it back into the lower part using the guideline (yellow) I created for reference.



I think the result looks much better an I am glad that I took the time to do it.







After this slight diversion, I returned to my original mission, replacing the hatches, and sliced Part 9 along the deck to remove the aft hatch. In the process I sliced everything else off too (as seen below in yellow)…



…So I separated the parts and reattached all but the hatch to the deck.



The hatch I deleted.


 
Next, I copied the new hatch with the pivoting guide in place.



For some reason, part of the spring hinge was protruding from the new hatch, so I extruded a rectangle…


 
…And subtracted it before joining the new hatch to the deck.




 
I did the aft torpedo loading hatch next, starting by slicing the part along the lower face of the hatch.



To make it easier to see what I was doing, I put the main part on a temporary layer that I turned off. I then drew a circle to match the opening I made before and drew a line straight up to the deck (red line barely visible in mage below)…



…And extruded the circle up along the red line…



…And subtracted it.



Now I was ready for the hatch, so I copied it in place…



…and joined the parts back to the main part.



The image below shows the completed Part 9, except for the “wooden deck” I plan to add later.



At this point I turned to the covered hatches. This was made more difficult by the fact that I had joined the hatch to the cover in my template. Some dicing and slicing and rejoining followed by copying the new hatch without the pivoting guide in place and joining it to the cover produced the hatch seen in the images below.





Starting with the aft covered hatch…



I deleted the existing hatch…



…And replaced it with the new one…



…Which you can see was out of alignment with the deck so I rotated it into position.



I did the same thing for the covered hatch forward, aft of the fairwater.









The next two images show the aft parts behind the fairwater. These parts are now completed except for the deck (I think.)





Well, I’ve burned through all my midnight oil. It’s time for some sleep.

CHEERS!!!