Revell Type IX C (U505 Late) 1/72nd

[salmon]

When I built models eons ago, I rarely painted on the sprue. It seemed like I always messed up those parts. That being said, the details in the Turm are nice, maybe not perfect, but nice. I know I will do some detailing to the parts and need access to them. So, I am building this in a modular way.

Sub-sections, if you will. Then the outside will be painted once I join all the parts together. Speaking of parts. I try to limit the details I put on until the sub has been trimmed and tested. Then it will get finished and re-test the trim.

Why do I not put on a lot of the details on right away? I break them. I have fat fingers that seem to gravitate to bringing a model to the least amount of pieces left on the sub as possible. Taking a sub in and out while trimming is a time my frustration level seems to get high and knocking off a detail I spent a lot of time working on just makes me want to turn green and smash. so, I get the bulk of the sub together, then once the trim is done I will add the finer details.

The periscope housing will be used as an additional way to fasten the sail to the deck, so it is marked just past were it exits the underside of the deck into the hull.


Found more openings that can be made to allow air to escape.


The periscope housing holds the smaller assemblies together.

[salmon]

Let me open a dialogue on passing gas. Not the kind you hope nobody realizes you made that stink, but gas or air that needs to escape your sub.
So please let my crayon drawings express what I think about and maybe you will help with what you do to help air escape. Here is our sub sitting wonderfully on the surface. You command the sub to dive.


The bow gracefully begins to dip down. Air is rushing to the highest places as water pushes it out.

Pause here for a moment, in this step air is going up along the underside of the deck. As the air goes towards the aft end, a lot of it will escape out the sail's airways and also out the limber holes along the side.

Continuing the dive, the majority of the air is out, the last areas that have air are at the very aft end and also the sail.

Unless I find an escape route for this air, my trim may never work correctly. The air trapped in the aft end of the sub will cause you headaches as you trim. The tendency is to put more weight in the back to compensate for the trapped air, but once you begin a rise, the bubble will move forward and cause the sub to be tail heavy or as your trimming one time the tail is light and the next it is heavy. This will depend on how much air gets trapped, not necessarily the same amount each time.

Providing we gave the air all the proper paths, any air remaining will escape with the last amount coming out of the Turm.


So this is what I think about as I build this sub and why I look for areas for air to escape. My one concern is the aft end of the sub. I may open up the grate at the very end of the sub. Not pretty, but functional.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

Tom,
Getting the air out from under the long decks of older boats is always a problem.
I have several thoughts on this.
The time it takes to get the air to move from the bow to the stern during the dive may be too long and the boat will be leveled out before the air can travel the full length of the boat.
Using you drawing which show air movement under the deck.


In your drawing at the tower, we can help the air escape by directing it to where it can escape more quickly.
The issue I want to address is the air moving from the bow that by passes the conning tower or sail and needs to travel all the way to the stern.
I think the use of a short dam or two can help.
Under the deck center of the conning tower or sail where there should be holes to vent air, a couple of "V' or and "X" dam can be employed.
Maybe 1/4" tall plastic pieces forming a "V" or "X" that the air will have to get past to get to the stern making it easier to go up the conning tower or sail to vent.
This means the air from the bow does not get to the stern so half the air will vent mid boat and the only the air aft of the conning toweer or sail will need to make it to the stern vent hole.

These plastic "V" or "X" would be shaped to fit tight against the underside of the deck and would bridge across the open areas under the conning tower or sail.
These plastic parts could also be tall enough to go down to almost the top of the cylinder making certain more air from the bow exits at the conning tower or sail opening.s.

Then if there is trapped air in the stern in a bow up attitude, the air would move forward and be stopped at the "V" or "X" and exit the tower or sail reducing the exaggerated bow up caused by air moving from the stern to the bow.

Basically these small plastic parts would divide the boat in to two section that the trapped air would move in.
The "V" or "X" pieces would move the air from the sides tot he center of the boat to the exit holes in the conning tower or sail.
Using a straight piece across the boat at the conning tower or sail will also work but there is a chance air could be trapped along the hull outer edges.

If the boat is big, dams could be used in other places directing air to various vent holes in the deck.
I think having the point of the "V" pointed towards the bow so that air during the dive is directed is best.
I really don't think during surfacing it's all that necessary.

Air bubbles tend to follow other air bubbles.
If you can get them moving in a specific direction, I think more air can be made to leave the boat quicker.

[scott t]

At the stern one might make the last inch of the deck a flap/door that is hinged to allow a air bubble in that location to raise it and escape then settle back into place.

[salmon]

Ralph and Scott,
You both are giving me lots to think about. Thank you!
Ralph, the thought of herding or managing the air paths verses providing the escape routes never crossed my mind. It is a great idea and I will look to see if or what I can do about it.
Scott, I was looking to see what I could do like that early this morning. There are a lot of opportunities to make a hatch open and if it can swing easily it might work to allow air out. The fit of the deck to the hull would preclude me from making that a flap, but making something hinged could work.
Has anyone tried these ideas? other suggestions?

[salmon]

Nothing really photographic to post regarding the build. A layer of primer is laid down and looking at colors. With school starting (I work for a school) and students returning, my time has disappeared. The only time I have had was researching.
Which brings up some interesting points.
Here is Revell's recommended colors.


Using the instructions I put down the colors used. I also blocked out some hatches and made them a lighter gray.


Why? This image of the capture caught my eye.This image is the crew on their way to capture the u-boat, so it is in the most pre-captured state (meaning no-one has painted or repaired the boat from the capture).

You can see bright hatches compared to the dark deck. My first thought was it could be just a light reflection on shiny metal verses a matt finish on a wooded deck.

This image added to my thought that it was just light reflecting - you do not see the hatches stand out.


Then I found this inspection photo.

It seems to confirm the lighter access hatches.

[JWLaRue]

Tom,

Those lighter colored hatches look like they may be untreated wood....possibly done as replacements due to battle damage and never treated/painted? They would be something to distinguish your Type IX model from the others!

-Jeff

[salmon]

Jeff, it might be!
Continuing to look at photos, this one also shows the lighter hatches.

Nice weathering here, but the biggest point I saw was the waterline. It goes along the bottom limber holes. When I looked at Revell's paint scheme they too placed it there. However I saw older pictures from the U-505 being on display and it was spaced way below the limber holes. As well as other modelers placement. Today, at the current location in the museum for the U-505, it is on display with the waterline painted high and back to the original placement. I guess for me, it was interesting to see the variations out there.

The next few photos show the amount of weathering on the Turm. I like the look and might want to replicate it....maybe. Still not certain how yet.



This is interesting showing the outside rail of the deck was used for this torpedo cart, like train rails.

[JWLaRue]

Those are some good shots of the torpedo canisters that are normally located below those metal deck sections on either side of the conning tower.

As to the weathering, I agree with you....replicating that on the model will make it look really good. It always surprises me how quickly those boats went from the clean, just-out-of-the-dockyard look to a very weatherbeaten look.

-Jeff

[PaulC]

Here's a question that has always perplexed me: what color is the weathering in those B&W images? The paint has failed so is it the primer that is showing through? If so, could it be gray or red oxide? Or is it rust? I know certain colors render a certain way in black & white but I've never seen anything that explains it. Did I miss some color images of the boat that would explain this? As an aside, how awesome it is to have such detailed images for modeling a particular subject!

[PaulC]

Okay, just saw the previously posted color images in this thread. But how to explain the white on the tower? Was it really white, or perhaps gray primer that is bleached in the weather? And the heavy rust beard at the bow was surprising. How can we differentiate between the two in black & white images -- impossible?

[JWLaRue]

Very unlikely that it is a white.....could be a light grey (Lichtgrau).

-Jeff

[salmon]

What about salt staining or bleaching?

[bob_eissler]

Just guessing but it looks like the top coat of paint didn't adhere to base coat and flaked off. Could be the surface wasn't cleaned or prepped well. The chemistry of the paint was wrong to etch into the primer? I'm sure by then the proper materials were in short supply.

[JWLaRue]

Okay....did some reading in some of my U-boat references. Here's what I found:

I think what we're seeing is the effect of the top coat (i.e. newer coat) of darker gray (one of these: Schlickgrau 58 or Blaugrau 58/1) paint peeling off and leaving exposed the earlier lighter gray color (possibly Hellgrau 50).

This makes sense given the directive of May 7, 1943, which directed that the upper colors of U-boats change to darker grays in response to concerns that the Allies may be using infrared sensors to detect surfaced boats...and these darker colors were thought to not be as easily detected.

So I would take this to mean that the tower of U-505 at the time of her capture was actually a darker gray than that of her upper hull.

-Jeff