433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

[Guest]

All,

content for this post will be the info and links for the 433mhz segment of the seminar.

there is a lot of the background on OpenLRS that i went over in the seminar, so if you are sitting at your chair reading this and wondering "what is OpenLRS ?" here, to whet your appetite is a small intro:

OpenLRS is a new Open Source hardware and software RF stack designed originally to allow for long range FPV flight of r/c model aircraft. originally "invented" by a gentleman from turkey in 2011, it has been embraced by the open source community and currently boasts functionality equal to or better than the best 2.4ghz equipment available today. for the individuals that originally designed it, it has all the benefits of 2.4ghz technology, but gives them un-precedented range of 20km or more.

for us in the r/c submarine community, it has one huge advantage over 2.4ghz equipment. It has no issues penetrating several feet through water.

without any further ado... on to the info i said i would post

1) the website where one can practice for the HAM technicians license:

http://aa9pw.com/radio/

there is a set of radio buttons and a "take exam" button in the upper left-hand corner. keep taking the test until you get at least 27 right. then, when you feel you are ready, take a look here]http://www.arrl.org/find-an-amateur-rad ... am-session[/url]


2)
hobbyking transmitter modules and receivers.

RX]http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... eiver.html[/url]

futaba TX module]http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... eiver.html[/url]

JR/turnigy TX module]http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ible_.html[/url]

please note that the TX modules i list are the 100mw versions. there is no reason to buy the more expensive 1watt versions, i am currently running my subs using the "6mw" rf output setting.

if you do not currently own a transmitter that has a modular rf deck, and you want to try out 433, hobbyking sells a fantastic 9 (really channel computerized transmitter that uses the JR/turnigy module listed above, for a really decent price:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... dule_.html

3)
in addition to the hardware, there is the need for software updates. the hobbyking stuff comes with the bare minimum software, and even they state that the current situation is kind of a throw-back to the good-old heathkit days. you can use the TX and RX as they come, but if you run your stuff around another 433mhz user, your systems will bind to each other's receivers.

so, the latest and greatest software to update the TX and RX with is called "OpenLRSng" and here is the wiki site]https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSng/wiki[/url]

4)
it kind of explains what needs to go on, but most import is a little dongle you will need to actually connect the circuit boards to your computer, to do the update]https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9873[/url]

in addition to the board, you will need a usb cable to connect the board to your pc. (the type of cable depends on what type of usb connector your pc has)

finally, the easiest solution is to use a plug-in for the Chrome web browser]https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... jnkl?hl=en[/url]

you will then have to download and install the appropriate usb drivers for the ftdi board]http://www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm[/url]

please note, that on my windows 8.1 tablet, the drivers had to be updated to a version newer than those downloaded from that site, before the configurator would actually show the appropriate comm port for my ftdi board.


finally, 3 youtube videos that clarify the entire "update the firmware" portion of this heathkit type of endeavor.

part 1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sYzYIjzLMQ[/url]

part 2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilmd4FqGzRw[/url]

part 3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRvkQl1LeR8[/url]



one last thing... for those of you who didn't make it to the regatta, a rather pointless video of my Delta, in its first real water test using the 433mhz setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly1vgK2PkZc

For those of you who made it to the regatta, the Delta ran the entire 3 days using the 433mhz setup with either my tablet based transmitter, or the same module plugged into my futaba 9cap.


*copy and paste those youtube video URLs here, and you can download the video so you can keep it handy on your local hard-drive]http://keepvid.com/[/url]



for those who want to get there feet wet with this amazing new technology, i hope this is enough to get you started. of course if there are any questions, just ask.

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

In addition, here are a few more large threads on OpenLRS (and OpenLRSng) in general, for those who wish to get the full background on what OpenLRS is

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1446653

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1782034

http://openrcforums.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=115

[bwi]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Whow thks this is a real aye opener for me.....I'm not into electronics at all but this is really interesting as we can used it for our subs. I have experienced myself that the MHz stuff is blown away by the 2.4 GHz stuff and becomes really hard to find. So this can be a solution.

If I understand it is not necessary to master a programming languish such as Arduino to get started....others have done this for people like me.

Thanks to you even novoices in electronics like myself get everything presented on a silver platter......inclusive were and what to order.....thanks man realy appreciate this.

I will let the info seep trough for a while but I certainly give the system a try in the future.

grtz,
Bart

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Bart,

I have not researched much on which european countries allow which frequencies specifically, but according to this link (a link that has nothing to do with OpenLRS, but does mention available RF usage in EU ), it looks like you might be able to use this setup with little or no restrictions:

http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspiration ... frequency/

specifically this sentence]The EU has more restrictions on which frequencies can be used. For Europe we use a very narrow band around 433 MHz as permitted by EU regulators.[/quote]

if we can get some of our EU members to find out specifically which 433mhz frequencies are allowed, we can post them here, and you can actually set those frequencies as the specific frequencies to use, using the Configurator tool.


definitely do your research, but it looks good for EU countries.

Tim

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Bart,

did a little more googling, and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPD433

please note, i am not an expert on EU regulations, but this might be a good place to start.


a more complete wikipedia listing, which encompasses LPD433]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_range_device[/url]

[bwi]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Thks Tim,

Also a little researched from my side:
In Belgium the 433MHz is used for all kinds of remotes (cars locks, alarm systems, Garage doors,....).
A continuous broadcast of the signal is not allowed...... only data "burst" technology is allowed, so that all these systems do not interfere with each other.

Also these frequency is part of the frequencies used by the Belgian Amateur Radio Society, if you want to transmit within there allocated range you have to possess a license issued by the Belgian authorities. Everybody can obtain it after passing an exam about 20$, and a practicum with a recognized Radio Society.

The more I read about I become convinced that the interference will be huge en it will be illegal in Belgium to use it.
So for the moment I will keep way clear from the 433 MHz stuff.

Please note that the a.m. is only valid for Belgium other EU members may have other regulations......still some work ahead for Europe I guess

grtz,
Bart

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Bart,

definitely follow up and take the time to talk face to face with someone who has an Amateur license. Here in the United States, i was originally following along a similar path until i was enlightened about a specific topic by a friend who also happens to have a HAM license, and has had that lisence for over 30 years. he brought up the following concept:

Legal VS licensed.

here in the states we have the "ELECTRONIC CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS" and within that code, is a section: title 47, PART 15—RADIO FREQUENCY DEVICES.

worded very similar to what you just stated. an example is

the remote door entry on you car keys... press a button, the car doors are unlocked. press a different button, car doors are locked. press a third button, your car's horn starts blaring.

now, look at the keychain. are there any markings at all on that keychain, regarding the radio emissions created by that device?

no.

that device is an un-licensed "RF Emitter". here in the United States, that is a device that falls under the regulations of title 47, part 15 of the ECFR. Ford Motor Company doesn't really want to make me take the HAM licensing exam to use the keychain device, so they limit that device to the stipulations presented in that document... the keychain device puts out less than 1 watt of energy, and sends no encoded data, transmits for less than a second, and the transmission is initiated by a person. all of these constraints are placed on these un-licensed "RF Emitters" so that they won't cause interference with the LICENSED "RF Emitters".

However, if i take the HAM license exam, and pass it, i am now licensed to operate an "RF Emitter" on any of the available HAM frequencies allowed within my local jurisdiction. As long as i don't cause any interference to anyone already using that frequency, i am basically free to do what ever i want.

my interpretation of the regulations is this: 433mhz devices are within the 70cm HAM band. to use any type of "RF Emitter" that puts out more than 1 watt of energy using those frequencies, you must be licensed to operate that device. period. you must make all attempts necessary to make sure that the device you are operating does not interfere with any other device operating within range of your device. period.

if you attempt to operate an "RF Emitter" without proper licensing, then you are subject to any fines or incarceration that your legislation/regulation of that "RF Emitter" allows.

[downbubble]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

I just wanted to chime in with my experiences, since some of the sub guys I spoke to had some understandable misconceptions.

Despite being a model airplane guy, I wasn’t really aware of OpenLRS until this post. When I read that 400mHz signals (UHF) penetrated water just fine, my interest spiked. So I bought the HobbyKing setup as an experiment and was pleased to have a flawless run with it out of the box at the recent SubRon5 Sun-n-fun event.

Despite the fine print at the retail sites stating that you need a degree in computer science to make it work, that is not true! It took me about one minute to get it working (once I found the instructions). The receiver has to be linked (bound) to the transmitter by pressing a button on the TX module on its very first use. After that, it remembers the transmitter’s ID each time you turn it on (there are some caveats which I will explain later below). Just like with the 2.4GHz system the car and plane guys use.

It may not be obvious, but the OpenLRS has some major advantages over the 75MHz “Ground” systems normally used:

• - UHF band means much shorter antennas in both your sub and transmitter (receiver and transmitter antenna only needs to be about 5-inches long). No more wrapping three feet of antenna into your WTC.
  
  - Much less susceptible to RF interference from motors and pumps.
  
  - Spread spectrum-like operation (up to 20 frequency channel hopping). No more crystals or frequency coordination needed with other drivers.
  
  - Very cheap upgrade. TX module is only $20-$30, and the 8-channel (!) RX is only $20 from HobbyKing.

The Open LRS system also has some great options if you decide to use them:

• - Lost model beacon! The receiver is also a transmitter, so it can transmit a signal that you can pick up using a FRS/Walkie Talkie to home in on a lost model.
  
  - Telemetry. The receiver can send info back to the user such as battery level, temperature, signal strength, etc. Maybe even ballast gas pressure. (there is also a speaker in the TX module for auditable warnings).
  
  - Failsafes. Just like PCM systems, if the receiver loses signal, you can set it up to automatically blow the ballast tank or whatever.
  
  - Software upgradable/configurable via your PC

Ok the inconvenient part:

In the USA, you need an Amateur Radio (HAM) license (though I’ve heard that if you transmit at 100mW or less you don’t need a license if you live in the UK, so check your country’s laws). But don’t let that scare you. I recently got my license and the [technician level] test was easy and took about 15-20min. to complete. It is multiple choice and mainly focuses on general concepts and rules/regulations. Very little electronics theory in the question pool (my test had almost no electronics questions). There are free sites that help you study (see above). I’ve known several relatively laymen easily pass the test first try. You can do it if you spend something like an hour a day for 2-3 days studying.

General Usage][/url]



The caveats]

- Every module is usually sold with the same ID and frequency setup.[/list]

That means if two people buy the OpenLRS setup and don’t customize it, they will conflict with each other due to the duplicate ID being used. Only three of the frequencies are used by default, so there will be some stepping on each other, but it normally shouldn’t be much of an issue. But the great thing is that it is all customizable. Simply get the ~$15 FTDI USB to Serial converter and you can easily customize your configuration via a Chrome Browser plug-in. I understand earlier incarnations required programming experience to do this. But it looks like with the latest [firmware] revision everything is now menu driven. I haven’t had a chance to play with it, but will give it a shot very shortly and report back.

The PC user interface allows some neat configuration changes]
- Number of channels to hop (up to 20)

- Hop sequence order

- TX ID (very important)

- Which frequencies to use (you can use all, some, or just one)

- RF transmit power output adjustment

- Other more techy stuff[/list]

Here is a screen-shot from a manual:


Note that the receiver can be configured wirelessly from the TX module!

Also included is a picture of the 8-channel Hobby King receiver in my 2” WTC. The RX is pretty small and has a SMA connector for the antenna. There apparently are 6 and 4-channel receivers which I hope are small enough to use in my tiny subs (I have one with terrible interference issues on 75MHz).



Personal thoughts]https://github.com/openLRSng/openLRSng/wiki[/url]

-DB

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

DB,

ebay has many sellers that make smaller antennas. I am currently testing 5cm and 6cm antennas in my Sculpin and Delta. the current Sculpin antenna sticks straight out from the sma connector, and is 5cm long (2") and the one currently in the Delta is 6cm long and has a 90 degree elbow at the sma connector, so that it sticks out perpendicular to the receiver. i bought both from a seller named "connekt" on ebay, and each was $2.00 The Sculpin definitely benefits from the shorter antenna. I will post photos of the two later.

Tim

[PaulC]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

DB (Fitz) explained his setup this past weekend at the Sun N Fun event and it really was slick. He ran his Revell Type VII on 433mhz and it performed beautifully. His WTC for the boat is a dynamic diving system but if you didn't know it you would swear he had a static ballast system. After experiencing it firsthand I'm going to go 433mhz with my Wahoo project.

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

photos of my two current 433mhz setups with their stubby antennas

delta (6cm)



sculpin (5cm)

[downbubble]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Thanks, Tim, I didn't know you could get pre-made antennas that short for it (~ 1/16 wavelength?).

I found a website that shows you how to make your own whip style antenna:

http://www.fpvmanuals.com/2011/03/23/make-your-own-lrs-rx-antennas-sander-style-and-turn-style/

[redboat219]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Got to check out my local robotics shop if the got these items.
So far this is what i've been able to look up.http://www.e-gizmo.com/KIT/categ/pmaste ... reless.htm

[tsenecal]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Thanks, Tim, I didn't know you could get pre-made antennas that short for it (~ 1/16 wavelength?).

I found a website that shows you how to make your own whip style antenna]http://www.fpvmanuals.com/2011/03/23/make-your-own-lrs-rx-antennas-sander-style-and-turn-style/[/url]

the long range flight guys are absolutely nuts about getting that last meter of distance out of their antennas. we need penetration, but not distance. I think the protocol with the ability to handle packet loss is what is saving our bacon here.

this is what the stock antenna looks like "naked"][/url]

i presume the shorter ones could be "skinned" to make them even smaller if need be.

[PaulC]

Re: 433mhz links and info (Tim's Regatta Seminar)

Well, guys, I'm in. I made my purchase last night.