Next Build Type XXI or Similar Options

[Parallax]

Not sure if this belongs in build threads or r/c modeler, but I am looking for thoughts on the next sub build. While I still intend on doing a Precision Sturgeon when it becomes available, my dad is very interested in a larger pre Albacore style hull model. We have been discussing possibly a Type XXI elektroboat, in roughly 1/48 scale. Other subs that came after the type XXI are also options. Maybe a Tang, Skate class, Guppy conversion, etc.

What triggered the idea was a very excellent XXI at the recent SubComEast build day, that I believe was a Precision model. Matt is super busy though so I do not want to to bug him anymore as I have been with the Sturgeon

After some research it looks like the two primary outfits that made large Type XXI's were Robbe and Warfish but neither makes models anymore. Some further web surfing came up with the following:

rcsubs.cz has a 1/72 XXI, but that is not really in the larger model we were looking for. They do however have a 1/48 XXI tower for sale.

LoyalHannaDockyard actually has 2 XXI's listed. One is a 1/48 scale designed for a WTC for 750 (ouch). The second one is actually a Robbe 1/40 scale I am going to need to email them about as I thought those kits were gone and out of production.

If anyone has any other advise about these models or other options please let me know. Once we have a model picked out we can start working out WTC and Dive system plans.
Thanks,
Mike

mikessubworks has a very interesting 69" long 1/32 Type XXVI listed. I had never heard of it before but apparently they were being built when the war ended. They look like meaner versions of a XXI.

Scaleshipyard has a 1/72 gato that is 4'3" long. I think we could possibly do that as a guppy conversion.

Engel sells a pretty massive 1/48 Gato, but I think it is probably too large and expensive for us to work with, considering we would be altering it into a guppy conversion.

There is a thread on sub pirates about a 1/48 Skate class sub made by a Mr. Garry Gray, however the thread is pretty old, and I did not have much luck finding details about him. I am going to see if I can do some more digging about that sub.

[sam reichart]

Type XXI? Buy Matt's boat. His conning tower has all the detail, the hull is scribed, it's epoxy and lightweight. Comes with running gear and props.

Rocky Mountain Shipyards used to make one. I know of at least one member that still has that model. No longer produced.
32nd Parallel made a 1/32 scale one. Huge model, sparse on detail. Bob Martin is building out one of them. I've seen two completed. Only a handful were produced.
Some of the guys over the pond might still make them; I've seen some over the years in photos.

If you want a Type XXI with the goods, buy Matt's. They are not cheap, however.

Garry Gray lives in Australia. Shipping anything from there costs an arm and a leg.

[thor]

I have 3 type XXIs kits in the works for customers right now. I am currently out of the country on business, but will be returning on the 28th. I am accepting orders for Permits and Type XXIs as the molds are complete and in production

[JWLaRue]

Mike,

A couple of things....

Type XXVI - I have one of those hulls, mostly unbuilt. I mounted the stern dive planes. I can bring it to our next SubBuild day if you'd like to see it. It was the first one that Loyalhanna produced...in fact I think the one on those photos is actually of the hull that I have. The XXVI was one of those Walther prototype/development hulls that never went into any sort of production....but you're right, it does look mean!

Type XXI - the hull that you saw was made by the originator of the masters (Doug Badgely) that are now in Matt's possession. Warfish Models (Paul Crozier) acquired the molds/masters from Doug years ago. Paul has since sold them to Matt. I believe Matt has created new molds, etc....so you can be certain that any Type XXI hull that Matt produces will be at least as good as the one you saw.

robbe Type XXI - does not include a ballast system. However there have been a couple of folks who have retro-fitted this boat to use Engel pistons.

-hope this helps!

Jeff

[thor]

Jeff,

A slight correction. I first purchased the original molds from Doug Badgely in 2005. After producing the Type XXI kits for a few years, I sold the molds to Paul Crozier. After much regret, I was able to talk Paul into selling the molds back to me several years ago. I, still, have in my possession the original patterns and molds. But, you are quite correct in that I created an all new set of molds based off of Doug's original pattern. The kit has been improved and updated in many ways, which does include the PE set you created for the kit, as well as an all new set of guns, all new Conning tower (super detailed, even with rivets), scale propellers, periscope shears, Conning tower antennas(minus the mattress antennae, but am working on that one now) detailed rudder, and additional detailing on the hull.

[JWLaRue]

Ahhh....I appreciate the correction on the lineage of the master/molds.

-tnx!
Jeff

[eckloss]

The XXI hull I saw at the build day at Jim's didn't;t have much scribing on the hull. However the photo showing the latest incarnation at http://www.precisionpattern.biz does show quite a bit of hull detail (which is very well weathered). Are there new scribes on the current hull or is it just a really accurate paint/weathering job?

[JWLaRue]

Erich,

The hull you saw most definitely has the appropriate panel scribing. The conning tower does not. Don't forget that what you saw is an unfinished, unpainted hull.

-Jeff

[eckloss]

Ok Jeff.... Must not have had my glasses on

[thor]

Erich,

The kit, as is now, has a very detailed conning tower. The original tower that Doug produced had no scribing or detail at all.

The hull scribing matches the Fritz Kohl drawings, but it is very lightly executed. But, it is there. The real XXI hull was very clean so there is not as much detail as a Type VII, Type IX or similar boat.

I forgot to mention that the kit, also, comes with cast gratings (Floods).

One of those 3 kits in the works right now is for you, Erich.

....and, yes, I am working up an appropriate new conning tower for Jeff to replace his old, undetailed, tower.

[JWLaRue]

....and, yes, I am working up an appropriate new conning tower for Jeff to replace his old, undetailed, tower.

...and associated tower components as well!

I'm also looking forward to the new props that Matt is producing for this post, based on the Kohl drawing of the prototype prop.

-Jeff

[eckloss]

Thanks for the good words, Matt. I'm really looking forward to the type XXI. I've never built any war-era boat, be they Axis or Allied. Hope I can do it justice!

[Parallax]

Wow,
Thank you so much for the replies from everyone! I think I am going to take Sam's advice and go with Matt's Type XXI since he is taking orders. I just did not want to be a bother.

Matt I will email you shortly for time frame / payment /etc later tonight. I'll admit I was hoping you would be willing to make another one as I have been really happy with the older Permit that I have. Is the the XXI going to have the same carbon reinforcement as the new permits? I think my dad is going to be really excited about this and I am looking forward to building one with him.

Jeff I would love to see the type XXVI at the next meet if you don't mind bringing it. Btw, it sounds like there will be almost as many XXI s in SubComEast as 212s soon

I think now its time to start the planning stage for the build. Jeff and Erick, what are you guys planning to do for wtc, ballast system and electronics, as well as what other people have done in the past. I also need to read up how to install items such as the grates and photo etched parts. That is in addition to how to prepare the hull for paint, how to paint without losing the details and scribe marks, and about a million other things. With the dual props, does the sub run two motors, or is there a gearing set up to run both shafts with a single motor? I am assuming the shafts rotate in opposite directions?

Thanks again!
Mike

[eckloss]

To answer one of your questions, I'll be using an OTW cylinder (exact diameter tbd). Jeff and I are going to be doing ballast tests with the XXI and my Ohio I had at Jim's at the March fun run to determine cylinder requirements. OTW cylinders are pretty much ready to go. Just add servos and a receiver. They are smooth as silk. But you do pay for it.

And yes, a two prop boat does use a cylinder with two separate motors. They do rotate in opposing directions.

Dealing with a hull with scribed details requires a little careful planning. Using light-coat primer and paint so as not to fill in the scribe lines. If they are not very deep to begin with I usually prime and then re-scribe through the primer to keep the line as prominent as possible.

-erich

[sam reichart]

Wow,
Thank you so much for the replies from everyone! I think I am going to take Sam's advice and go with Matt's Type XXI since he is taking orders. I just did not want to be a bother.

Matt I will email you shortly for time frame / payment /etc later tonight. I'll admit I was hoping you would be willing to make another one as I have been really happy with the older Permit that I have. Is the the XXI going to have the same carbon reinforcement as the new permits? I think my dad is going to be really excited about this and I am looking forward to building one with him.

Jeff I would love to see the type XXVI at the next meet if you don't mind bringing it. Btw, it sounds like there will be almost as many XXI s in SubComEast as 212s soon

I think now its time to start the planning stage for the build. Jeff and Erick, what are you guys planning to do for wtc, ballast system and electronics, as well as what other people have done in the past. I also need to read up how to install items such as the grates and photo etched parts. That is in addition to how to prepare the hull for paint, how to paint without losing the details and scribe marks, and about a million other things. With the dual props, does the sub run two motors, or is there a gearing set up to run both shafts with a single motor? I am assuming the shafts rotate in opposite directions?

Thanks again!
Mike

You’re welcome. Truth be told, I may be bugging Matt for one as well. I had one of Matt’s early versions of this model. This upgraded version looks awesome. The XXI and XXIII are two of my favorite boats.
Get yourself a dual motor ballast system, props rotate in opposite directions.