Open query to the organization.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

I have been following this thread with interest.
I finally decided to take a look at the web site mentioned.

It looks more like a hobby distributer's sales page.
Too much stuff not organized in any manner that can be followed.

[bob_eissler]

I agree, just like a lot of visual and looks like it could encourage spontaneity.

[coryhenry]

I know this is a necropost but wanted to see if anything changed. I can tell you from a new member expeience the amount of information is amazing, but it does require research and patience. My son is 19 and will barely watch a 10 minute video because everything is small bites (Instagram, tictok) for the new generation. I think one of the main barriers to entry is the cost. When you can get into the RC plane, boat, car hobby for under $200 its a hard pill to swallow for a young person to lay out a couple of thousand. Besides the fact they don't have that kind of disposable income.

I also feel the pain of a volunter run organization. I have been on the board of the San Diego Professionals Against Cancer Festival of Beer for ten years. It is a completely volunteer run and all money is donated. It can be frustrating, to say the least, trying to wrangle cats and as one of the leads very discouraging. I will tell you that the committee and Bob's forum has given me all the info and more to build a new sub when I return. I appreciate the passion and answers from everyone.

I would say the best thing the organization could do is come up with some sort of cheap kit, under $500, RTR sub (using arduino?) that can be pushed into high school engineering or computer science clubs. This will not only get more youth involved but get them interested in coding and mechanics in an engaging way. I get to watch the autonomous underwater drone comptetion every year at NIWC PAC and it is amazing some of the code these high schoolers and college level kids are producing.

[salmon]

Cory,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and you are spot on for your assessment.
My son is 16 and what catches his eye changes from moment to moment. Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, Tictok, Snapchat, and others are grabbing him for his attention. The S.C. has had many conversations on how to get youth involved. No answers yet. Yes this hobby is expensive, it comes down to size of our base users. quadcoptors has hundreds of thousandS customers and we have maybe 2000. It is tough to convince a company to ramp up production for our base, so most of what you see is mom and pop type people making this stuff in small batches therefore higher price, economy of scale. That being said, there is talk of simple kits being developed. My favorite RTR was the Neptune SB-1. However it was still more than $500.
3D printing has gotten a lot of people interested in this hobby. Maybe that will get more involved. Bob is working on a simple starter kit, I believe. In Australia, there is an organization that holds competitions for building submarines, much like robotics competitions. I do not see a lot of students jumping on our forums and participating in conversations. It may be a long term investment where we will see them come back to the hobby as more disposable cash is in their hands say 30 and above. I honestly do not know the best route.
I would think, the best use of our time is getting more exposure out there. A lot of times when I would run my sub, I would here the statement “I never knew there were RC submarines” and targeting those in our age group that have the disposable income.
We at S.C. are volunteers and you get what that means. Cory, I am thrilled you are here and look forward to meeting you in 6 months or so.
Peace,
Tom

[coryhenry]

Thanks Tom, It appears part of the expense is the amount of detail in the models and the time to lay them up. Maybe a simple torpedo shape without details and very simple rudders and elevators making production very easy. Then the WTC problem and how to make a simplified version that is cheaper from a manufacturing perspective. I'm sure you have all gone through this thought process before. One thing the robotics groups have done is get corporate sponsors to buy kits for high schools. Of course this all takes time and effort. Not an easy problem.

[QuarterMaster]

Thanks Tom, It appears part of the expense is the amount of detail in the models and the time to lay them up. Maybe a simple torpedo shape without details and very simple rudders and elevators making production very easy. Then the WTC problem and how to make a simplified version that is cheaper from a manufacturing perspective. I'm sure you have all gone through this thought process before. One thing the robotics groups have done is get corporate sponsors to buy kits for high schools. Of course this all takes time and effort. Not an easy problem.

This has been discussed since I became a member in '92.

Getting the young generation involved and the hobby is too expensive.

I'm going to take another viewpoint in responding here.

Devil's Advocate......

This hobby is as only as expensive as you choose to make it.

If you have NO skill, NO brains, the lack of will to do anything but drive a museum quality Disney NAUTILUS, it will be VERY expensive for you.

If you buy a fiberglass hull, and a prefab Operating gear (OTW Cylinder or SubDriver etc) it will be expensive for you.

So with some skill and brains....You can take a $115 Moebius SKIPJACK, cut the pump section off a Rule 500GPH motor as your direct drive, Waterproof some blue $1.90 SG90 Servo's, go find a cheap 72/75 MHZ 4ch radio, waterproof the electronics using PVC pipe an acrylic end caps, bash this thing together as a dynamic diver that with care be indistinguishable from a $3k custum built for you boat. Under $500.

ALL of the information to do that is listed here in these, RCG and the Nautilus Drydock Forums.

You're 100% correct about getting some 19 y/o away from Youtube, YOU can't do it. YOU can't push them.
Been that way for 4 million years of Hominoid evolution, or 6K years if you're a Creationist.

They need to want to themselves, I sure as heck had different priorities at 19.

UNTIL THEY (or anyone) choose to get away from YouTube, Xbox, life in general etc, it will be a $3K hobby for them.

So again, what's your point? That this hobby is expensive? Or that for a vast majority of Millennial's want it handed to them?

WHAT do you, or them (the new generation) choose to do?

My honest opinion...forget under 21, leave that to the parents. I always say it's the 40+ y/o's we should target. End of child raising and looking for something to do.

All others with this suggestion are welcome to produce those "inexpensive" starter kits. There is NO market for it, but I'd really love to see it finally.

[Sonar]

A difficult question that we also face. I tried to show the fascination of our hobby in expressive pictures that do not need any explanation or comment. They show something that others cannot. Please have a look: http://www.sonar-ev.de/index.php/en/ And enjoy it...

[coryhenry]

My honest opinion...forget under 21, leave that to the parents. I always say it's the 40+ y/o's we should target. End of child raising and looking for something to do.

All others with this suggestion are welcome to produce those "inexpensive" starter kits. There is NO market for it, but I'd really love to see it finally.

This is really a larger problem with society in general. However, if we don't get the young interested in engineering before they are making choices about college they will be sucked into the youtube stupid world forever and go get a polysci degree! My company sponsors women in engineering events building robots, no reason that couldn't be shifted to submarines. We buy robot kits then run workshops with real engineers and coders to assist. The end result is young girls that want to be enginers just needed a push. The kits cost $200 a piece so its in the relm of possibility to buy several kits. Ed, if you were to kit the idea you proposed it would make the barrier to entry much lower for new people, which is the key to addiction!! You have to give them the drug to get them hooked first

Maybe Subcomittee commits to sponsoring ten kits and setting up an event for a local highschool near a Navy town. See if that increases interest in the local area.

[coryhenry]

A difficult question that we also face. I tried to show the fascination of our hobby in expressive pictures that do not need any explanation or comment. They show something that others cannot. Please have a look: http://www.sonar-ev.de/index.php/en/ And enjoy it...

Great site sonar!!

[QuarterMaster]

Don't get me wrong...I dig it, but again we've had this conversations more times than I could count.

Unfortunately it's such a "niche" field.

The numbers aren't there to sustain any form of production. Boats aor viable radios for the US.

People say.."Why can't someone just make cheap RC Sub's for beginners."

Well, they do, they're toy's.





As for Kits......

A very well known man among this community, who we called the "Godfather of the RC Submarine" (he rather looked like one) made a whole hearted attempt to make an affordable, mass produced boat for the entry level "Hobbiest".

Almost everyone I knew who had one complained about it.

All I saw was that he got grief for his troubles, burned out, and is no longer among us.

There simply is no market. 10, maybe 20k enthusiast world wide...for the HOBBY, not the toy.

Maybe half that have boats in the water...WORLD WIDE.

The US even has less, and they want 75Mhz Radio's lol. (NOT going there in this thread, I've been bashed enough.)

Who's going to tool up and produce these coveted radios, even if the US had ALL the RC Sub operators in the world?

NO Market.

This is a hobby, for a select few willing to go the distance. Those who want to...will do.

Actually it's what I love about it, forcing me to Engineer.

You specifically mentioned Arduino! FANTASTIC! I love it!!

That can provide so much for us. I can't even begin to imagine!!
Autopilot
Autolevel
Failsafe

All for $15 and a program we can collaborate and write!!

Yes ENGINEERING IS FUN...if you WANT that!

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!

I even tried to share that!!

Take a look at this thread.....

US Submarine Identification Beacon w/Arduino BEETLE

1-I shared an Arduino program for all
2-The first answer is "Kevin McLeod offers a great little circuit with LED set to fade in and out like an incondescent bulb on the real boats. Ready to wire without Arduino."

So answer me this? Why should I bother??

4 new shares in the "Vault" 3 are mine lol.

Let's not even get into what I shared regarding 2.4Ghz and being told I don't even own a real sub lol

WTF??

All we can really do is attraction through promotion. As we say in Zen practice...Point the way.

Also, we're not here to fix society's issues. Sorry and I don't mean to sound like an horse's excrement deposit unit, but I tried with....
Boy Scouts
Sea Scouts
High School kids
etc....

If YOU can lead those robot kids here, we will show them. I'll be the first to help.

As for those who are here? Help them in ANY way we can.

What is it said about leading a horse to water?

I'll shut up now, I've seen what happens here to people who cross the line lol.

It's all good!

[Sonar]

Thanks a lot. I think it's not a question of cost, it's emotion. What did we jump on? Remember: "Das Boot" was turned 40 years ago, "Hunt for Red October" has also seen 30 years. And since then? Nothing. Young people today have little chance of coming into contact with submarines.

[Sonar]

A good example of a cheap boat, that can be easily done by beginners is the "Spook" made of balsa: http://www.sonar-ev.de/images/leseproben/sonar79.pdf

[sam reichart]

Don't get me wrong...I dig it, but again we've had this conversations more times than I could count.

Unfortunately it's such a "niche" field.

The numbers aren't there to sustain any form of production. Boats aor viable radios for the US.

People say.."Why can't someone just make cheap RC Sub's for beginners."

Well, they do, they're toy's.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9293[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9294[/ATTACH]

As for Kits......

A very well known man among this community, who we called the "Godfather of the RC Submarine" (he rather looked like one) made a whole hearted attempt to make an affordable, mass produced boat for the entry level "Hobbiest".

Almost everyone I knew who had one complained about it.

All I saw was that he got grief for his troubles, burned out, and is no longer among us.

There simply is no market. 10, maybe 20k enthusiast world wide...for the HOBBY, not the toy.

Maybe half that have boats in the water...WORLD WIDE.

The US even has less, and they want 75Mhz Radio's lol. (NOT going there in this thread, I've been bashed enough.)

Who's going to tool up and produce these coveted radios, even if the US had ALL the RC Sub operators in the world?

NO Market.

This is a hobby, for a select few willing to go the distance. Those who want to...will do.

Actually it's what I love about it, forcing me to Engineer.

You specifically mentioned Arduino! FANTASTIC! I love it!!

That can provide so much for us. I can't even begin to imagine!!
Autopilot
Autolevel
Failsafe

All for $15 and a program we can collaborate and write!!

Yes ENGINEERING IS FUN...if you WANT that!

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!

I even tried to share that!!

Take a look at this thread.....

US Submarine Identification Beacon w/Arduino BEETLE

1-I shared an Arduino program for all
2-The first answer is "Kevin McLeod offers a great little circuit with LED set to fade in and out like an incondescent bulb on the real boats. Ready to wire without Arduino."

So answer me this? Why should I bother??

4 new shares in the "Vault" 3 are mine lol.

Let's not even get into what I shared regarding 2.4Ghz and being told I don't even own a real sub lol

WTF??

All we can really do is attraction through promotion. As we say in Zen practice...Point the way.

Also, we're not here to fix society's issues. Sorry and I don't mean to sound like an horse's excrement deposit unit, but I tried with....
Boy Scouts
Sea Scouts
High School kids
etc....

If YOU can lead those robot kids here, we will show them. I'll be the first to help.

As for those who are here? Help them in ANY way we can.

What is it said about leading a horse to water?

I'll shut up now, I've seen what happens here to people who cross the line lol.

It's all good!

All I can say is great post, Ed.
Lots of discussion topics over lots of years in what you posted.
How to attract new members, new hobbyists.
The first boat.
The cheap starter sub.
Radio selection.

I also like your comment that talks about changing the target audience from kids to 40s age adults.

[roedj]

All,

First of all, I have no particular axe to grind. I'm retired with a small amount of disposable income to participate in the RC sub hobby. But, I would love to see the hobby grow too. I agree that aside from getting the younger set to show any interest the main obstacle is cost.

I've included a link to a fellow who built a "submarine" out of pop/soda bottles.
Is it a toy? YES.
Does it look like a real sub? KINDA/SORTA.
Is it cheap? I THINK SO.
Is it clever? VERY
Does it function like a real sub? ABSOLUTELY - and it's a static diver to boot.
Am I suggesting it should be a SC group project? NO - but it should get your creative juices flowing.
Could it be made more real? SURE - if you have the time and money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ATYNYx_P9w

You're welcome,

Dan

[pirate]

Instagram and Pinterest are where the masses (and youth) are.
A club Instagram account is a possibility.
We can all signup and post on Pinterest. https://www.pinterest.com/
You can find every large and small interest group on both. Pinterest sends you pins that align with the interests you indicate. Lots of military pins come up on mine daily, as well as all kinds of engineering pins.
With both of these there’s no need for one person to take on the whole load. As a club we can coordinate and recommend what other things to post. There’s an interest for nearly every skill the club members hold. Casting. Mold making. Wood working. Plug making. CAD drawing, etc. take pictures and post every little thing you do with text that promotes the club and the seeds will grow. #subcommittee, #submarines, #modelmaking. Do it today!