Open query to the organization.

[sam reichart]

interesting idea about Slack...it's the difference in collaboration apps like Slack and "regular" bulletin board software... I've often wished for a "like" button here. Some boards I frequent do have that feature...

[bob the builder]

Back home and recovering! Thanks, Sam!

I dare say we likely have a pretty hefty representation of the overall RC sub populace here. What I think we need, both as an organization and as a hobby, is a bigger overall RC sub populace. As was mentioned earlier, too many people don't even know that this "is a thing". As I said earlier, I think a social media campaign and ongoing strategy would go MILES to bring awareness, and it would be free to do.

Bob brings up an interesting point. How many people are like him in that they have builds and info to share, but don't have the time and/or ability to do so? Could we have a volunteer SC "reporter" who sniffs out these kinds of people, pries photos out of them, takes a quick call to get the info, and creates an article to share on the forums and social media? This could potentially also address the lack of articles in the SCR. I think an enterprising individual could make a few bucks using the existing SCR bounty on articles by finding people like Bob, getting the photos, writing an article, and submitting it to the SC. Hell, could we sweeten the pot a bit, churn through a bit of that dusty cash in the coffers and make a better resource for the hobby by incentivising this position via a more robust compensation? I think that would actually be a pretty fun way to kill a few hours per month for someone.

Another thought is that we could try to hit up other hobbies such as RC planes, cars, and especially boats. After decades of building the same things there, there are a ton of people interested in trying something new, and the experience they have building those craft will mean that the building process for the subs would be much easier than a bona fide newbie coming into RC for the first time.

Another possible avenue could be networking with European RC sub groups. I understand this was done in the past, but ended up petering out. Europeans have different ways of going about building boats, and exposure of North Americans to their thinking, and them to ours could grow awareness and innovation in the community. What about some cross-pollination of forum threads, simple cut and paste with forum owner and/or author permissions?

Seems to me we could summarize the ideas we're generating, create a task/position list, and then post up the need publicly, looking for volunteers to fill the positions.

[QuarterMaster]

A lowly members perspective…....1 of 2

I decided to take a stab at this, because I actually understand EXACTLY what Mr. Martin is saying, as well as EXACTLY what Mr. Reichart says as well. I did a lot of thinking on this the past few days.

I'll even offer a bit of credentials to aid in understanding that I speak from experience so as to help keep those who respond without thinking hold off until they think.

First off, unfortunately as humans, perception is reality. IOW, it is as you think you see it, and NOT how it actually is.

I've been a member since the SCR was little more than a letter sent among friends. Stayed one for many years. Then I actually left the SC for a period between '05 and '15, so I missed a bit too, apparently like the rift Sam mentioned. I've seen us at our best and worse. At its height WE were welcomed by Captains at an actual Sub Base, toured active duty ships of the line. We had members worldwide visiting it on a yearly basis. I sadly admit I can't fly to Germany to one of their regattas once, much less years in a row.

But the past is the past, yet perception is reality. Are the "Good times" over, at least those I perceive? My head says NO, but in fear of becoming one of those guys who state “Back in MY day….”, my heart actually twinges. I met a lot of good friends over those years in Groton, people who understood this obsession and certainly put up with me. Personally I’ll admit the relocation of the Annual Regatta hit me hard, and for not good reason I began to look at other venues of leisure. I took my toys like a petulant child and ran.

Then again, by what right do I have to only have it near MY home? Not centrally located AS IT SHOULD BE! Available to ALL members nation and worldwide who are willing to travel. But there goes that pesky perception is reality. Cry Eddie cry.

I joined other organizations, like the USCGAux, became s Certified CGAux Safety Boating Instructor, at the NYS level as well, became a certified Nav Aid inspector and generally and did my thing. I mention this ONLY because the SC is a National organization like the CGAux, and I eventually learned, where you go...there you are. IOW, these perceptions you have follow you. Followed me there and back regardless of what I did, simply because I didn’t understand.

The point is..what did I learn? I learned that the change is SOLELY up to me,as are the expectations. I can’t expect others to do it for me

I learned another important lesson, more on that in a moment

Look, I can't get people from my group on LI to acclimate to new technology (ahem...Baby Boomers) like Social media, or reading a digital subscription like the SCR, Cheese-n-Crackers, we have one member print out issues for another member to read!! I often look at folks of my generation complaining about that other tech savvy generation and I giggle….They have us beat! I’m most likely stereotyping, but I bet most people of the BB generation might agree.

And I can’t get my group to go to Carmel! If I want to go, “I” must go.

So it’s back to the aforementioned point, change is SOLELY up to me. I can’t expect others to do it. I need to get in the truck and go.

I have NO excuse not to go see my old friends, though I have imagined many.

This speak’s right into Sam’s point, and the primary reason I will never run for an Executive Position. Been there, done that. Sam has the toughest job, babysitting. HE has made the effort to reach out, to request other groups to hold a regatta, much less other ideas he put forth. I freely admit I like to wait until the other guy does the “hard” work, then I’ll join.

So I can’t get them (Islanders) to go to Carmel, and NO talk of a yearly regatta other than the one at Groton, which due to the Base Security nowadays having one sanctioned at the SC level would be an impossible ask of the SubBase. A thousand or so BI’s vs 30??

What’s a squid to do??

The second lesson…….

I think (which is dangerous) that the key is, far beyond “duty”, to any Social organization such as ours is simply fellowship. That was the lesson I learned in my departure, and in membership with other organizations.

I will always stress Fellowship as the single most important factor of an organization such as this. Fellowship greatly influences “perception is reality”.

Though I can’t speak for Bob, this is perhaps what he’s actually pointing at. This is something we all need to feel. I’m not saying we lack it, but it’s an International organization, and though it tends to heavily list to the RC side, a multi interest organization. THAT’s what people like Sam face. You know what I mean…”You can please some……”

The technology is there for the RC boater. So “lack of innovation” can’t be a major factor here

Now comes FLAME time for Eddie….ready your throwers and do your best folks!!

ANY person who can thread a screw can stuff a commercial WTC in a hull and own a boat. If they can’t ,they got Bob. Any of you angry?? Don’t get me wrong, the original intent of vendors such as Mr. Asay and Mr. Merriman was JUST THAT. To bring this hobby to the masses. I know, I was there when they said that. Hopefully this worked, I think it did. But did it make others lazy with innovation? Just asking a question.

I really envy the new guy….your first time.

“In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities, in the experts mind so few.” Shunryu Suzuki

So what’s here for a guy with 32+ years like me? I seen it, been there done that. How does Sam,much less the Executive Committee deal with that, that which Bob, and myself seek?

Or the guy that does static, or collects memorabilia, or hope to find more Sub Vet’s??? Nothing to do with th RC side of it.

Or are we to see the door on the left and leave? Been there done that too. Are you willing to ask what I missed? Don’t think anyone missed me as witnessed by ALL those calls asking about me that I got. But perception is reality.

After all this garbage I just spewed you’d think I have an answer.

Well, I don’t.

It all comes back to perception is reality and change is SOLELY up to me . Because there is no such thing as a “magic bullet” here

But I am going to offer something, after all it’s easy to complain, hard to offer something of value. But whether you agree or not, that’s cool….I understand perception is reality. Also, this is only experience...my experience. In the end it may only matter to me that I said this.

If you got this far, this rant will make more sense hopefully on the 2nd post, or run now.....

[QuarterMaster]

A lowly members perspective…....2 of 2

On the Island we hooked up with a local group of Targets known as the Empire State Models Mariners, who've done more to welcome us in the past year than the SC has since SCLI was formed. Heck they even treated us to free meals. They want to learn from us, and we learn from them. A bit of friendly rivalry (key word as you’ll see) with the Surface folk, who been trying to coax us to come play for years…...

At first glance your saying, WHAT a child, how dare you!! What exactly do you expect SC do for you? My answer...nothing. Why should they? It’s a National organization that covers many more people with needs than 7 old farts on LI. Money? Nope. Power? Nope. A special medal and chest to pin it on? Nope…..well maybe the medal.

I want competition and rewards between ALL the Chapters, sanctioned from National. It doesn’t have to be a national regatta or a local regatta, just SOMETHING with a reward at the national level for both the Chapter and the individual, yet available to someone unable, and let’s be honest, unwilling to make a national event. It can even be for the lone “Individual at Large” in SIberia. Recognition for ones and one's Chapters participation. A simple basic human need many deny.

Competition WILL:

1-Drive innovation

2-Foster Recruitment

3-Retain members

4-Most of all, foster fellowship at the Chapter level, without the difficulty of attempting that with a message board with unknown faces, or meeting once a year.

I’m talking ALL of SC, not just the 3 or so groups that make the trip to Carmel.

What are we talking?

1- Perhaps down the line of a beauty contest…A best of the year Award
Subcatagories (a multi interest organization)
SCR RC Boat of the year, Static Boat of the Year, Engineering, Article of the Year, Painting...whatever

Each Chapter can offer an entry to submit, maybe a winner after they compete within itself.

2-Recruitment Award, which group grew the most? Most new Members.

3-Fellowship, meets the most often, has the most to report, best Logo. most recruitment

Look, I’m coming from what I learned in the USCGAux, the unpaid volunteers of the US Coast Guard. How did we really get paid?

With Awards.

Whether they were a something as simple as a document hung on a wall, a ribbon on a chest, or a building named in one’s honor, it meant something to the person who received it.

This simple piece of paper I show you below, will with three Washingtons, get me a single metro pass for ride on on a NY City subway. It means nothing to most, and that’s OK! But it is the single most important personal document to me, that I’ve ever received. This particular document because YOU as an connoisseur of Submarines can understand this.

How nice would a similar document reading…

Qualified in Radio Control Submarines

…..with signatures of the SC Executive committee mean to someone who owned one?



Bob and I were discussing something similar to this, The RC Submariner Modelers Pin, which we hoped to foster pride and competitiveness among the RC folk. A byproduct would generate a database of who owns what boat. Imagine that resource when your having a tough time with a particular build.

Maybe all this is nothing, but maybe something

How would we do this? I’m not sure, I do know it will take some effort, but not a lot compared to other things. Perhaps just a group who judges once an issue to once a year.

Awards? The aforementioned paper awards, and what about T shirts? Mug’s Patches?
I miss being able to show SC pride with trinkets such as these.

I agree, we would need people and resources. The exact issue I mentioned earlier regarding. I would have to be willing to step up and help. THis rather long read is a long overdue attempt at that.

Or...we can do nothing.

It’s up to us.

SO I agree with Bob, we need something. Something for the recruit AND the elder statesman. Maybe a select few of you are happy with the status quo, good for you. But things change, whether one wants them or not, and not always for the better.

SO I agree with Sam, folk need to step up. People and resources, people like ME need to put our money where our mouth is, or sit idly by like phytoplankton experiencing the aforementioned change as well.

In summary, I feel the answer lies at the local level work with a members point of perception, with recognition at the national level for both. As well as fellowship.

How many DO care regarding the topic Bob started...answers easy, look at the number of replies. Compare that to the members on this board, and that to the members of the SCR as a whole. Just my "perception."

This was a long read, I’d say 80% of the SC won’t give a $#*!, 80% of the remainder thinks I’m full of the aforementioned excrement, or nut’s. A few might even agree. A few might want me tossed out. I don’t care anyway, I was asked as a member to offer an opinion, I gave it. What happens now don’t matter to me, as I’ve been there, out the door, and haven’t been missed. If you read to this point BZ!! Mention BZ in your post and I’ll at least know you did.

FWIW, I do truly miss all my old friends, so what excuse do I have to not come see them this year in Carmel?? Maybe I should get off my tuchus and go see them. After all, what I want is solely up to me. The fellowship is up to me.

I hope my fellow members perceive this in the way it was meant, from the heart, with true honesty regarding subjective feelings, for our growth.

I’m only human too, with needs, and desires (at least until the Singularity becomes a reality, then I’ll be a robot)

[bob the builder]

Ed,


Thanks for taking the time to put those posts together. It illustrates the passion that at least some members have for the hobby and the organization.

Backing up to my original intent of this thread, I want to quote something taken directly from the "About Us" section of the SubCommittee website:

"The SubCommittee is a not-for-profit organization of members from around the globe who share an interest in building model submarines. As a group we are dedicated to the advancement of the submarine modeling hobby."

It feels very much like many of the initiatives we have in place cater to existing membership. The SCR is members-only. The annual regatta is advertised to the membership. Perhaps we've lost sight of the original intent of the organization (unless it's different than the statement above, of course). The organization has identified itself as driving the advancement of the submarine hobby, not "the SubCommittee Organization". In my mind this means that while we need to provide value to members, we also need to provide value to non-members, promoting the hobby as a whole. There is no mention of "submarine modelling hobby in the US", or of "submarine modelling in North America". We need to create an overarching gameplan that will attract new people to the hobby from around the globe. Once in it, the resources, information and knowledge of the SubCommittee will naturally attract them here.

While I agree that it is not the role of the leadership of the SC to implement change, I would challenge them that it is their role to provide leadership and direction. The roles of leadership (in my mind, anyway) look something like this:

1.) Create the vision: Who are we? What are we trying to accomplish? How are we going to do it?
2.) Align people to the vision: Create buy-in, drive the message home, create excitement.
3.) Ensure that the vision is executed: Drive accountability.

I fully realize that the tenor of the thread and some of the posts within it can easily be construed as being overly-critical. I apologize to anyone who takes offense, sincerely. My only intention is to provide an opportunity for us to take a step back and, with as much impartiality as possible, evaluate who we are, gut-check that reality against our understanding of the world as it is today and what we see it becoming in the next, say, 5 to 10 years, and then create a strategy to ensure that we're aligned so that we don't become irrelevant.

[salmon]

Let me first say if I do not make sense or the following is not flowing correctly, I will pre-apologize. I had shoulder surgery where I had torn my rotator cuff and they fixed that. Also, my collar bone was trimmed back (Mumford surgery). So still on heavy pain meds.

My response is just as a member and not as Executive Committee. I think Sam did a great job explaining what the EC is doing.

I agree with all the prior posts

I love our hobby. Submarines have always interested me and it is an area that exercises my brain off work, but I can see how the been there, done that can creep in. In some ways there is common assembly in almost every sub.

Early in my first sub build, I posted here a question and got crickets as a response. In fact several times that happened. I also got a warning because of the WTC I was using and several private messages. On another site, I got responses and support, so I posted there. So, my first thought is active help on this site will bring people in. Even an encouraging word on someone’s build or (for me at least) I also appreciate a kick in the pants if I am doing something wrong or slacking off. There is a saying that hate is not the opposite of love, but ambivalence is. When someone is constructively critical of me or encouraging on my builds, I see both as caring enough to help me out. Saying this I need to make a point about comments and responses, posting just to get numbers is the wrong reason.

I post to help out. It helps me because I am tapping into a large pool of knowledge and the wisdom shared helps. Another reason is it is a lasting thing that a newbie may have the very same question that is posted. I feel this way about builds or work in progress (WIP). It can inspire someone to build that sub. I learn from someone posting. I do not care how long you have been in this hobby, there is always some new thing to learn.

Sometimes answering the same question over and over can become old. On another site I visit, every month or two it seems the question about 2.4GHz radios and cameras working underwater comes up. A simple search could resolve that, but that does not always happen. Same here at SC. I had a member that has been a member from way back tell me that many stopped answering newbie questions because it was the same question over and over. I get that, but that also may not encourage a person to continue building. Just recently I had talked to a former member who was so thankful for Big Dave always responding to his questions. In fact, this person felt he may have been annoying as he needed hand holding throughout his build. The final result is he had a running submarine. If Dave did not respond or help on all the questions the build may not have happened.

My point is (if any of this is making sense) the biggest asset we have is right here. This web site is the greatest tool we have to build our organization. It is the best recruitment tool, secondary is local fun runs. Those two items are so important and foundational to our hobby growing. If we run advertisement/articles in a magazine and bring someone to our site what will they see? If we give out medals and patches and no-one posts what good are they?

I think the website is the best way to show people we care and build excitement. We need to be welcoming and put our best foot forward.

Then part two is local fun runs. This is where the fellowship solidifies the friendships. wow, I might need need to continue this later.

Sorry I have to stop here. It is so tough to concentrate.

[scott t]

Thanks for posting guys. You may think we are making lite of the issue but we are listening.

So far I got some people are full of BZ. lol
And where you go ... There you are.
Fellowship is import.
Medals and trinkets are fun and could be motivating.
(who put a w in ansir) Answered questions always help and questions answered wrong bring more answers.

Scott T

[sam reichart]

Ed-
Thanks for the heartfelt posts; it is good to see that there are members that still have this much passion around the hobby. I don't know how many members/site visitors will respond to it, as this is part of the problem we've been discussing. It's difficult to get anyone other than a few regulars to reply to posts. We've been going back and forth on the ideas that you presented about badges and pins, with a couple different points of view and variations.
The truth is you could offer your idea to the membership, or a variant of this idea, and it would be difficult to tell whether or not it would catch on with today's crowd. I remember attending the Regatta's in the 90s where we would display the small brass plates that were handed out when you attended the Regatta in Groton.

I haven't attended the meet in Carmel, so I can't speak for how the idea of pins and badges would be liked or not there. I'll be happy to share the other thoughts of the EC as we discussed your idea. What I definitely don't want to do is stifle creativity within the group, though. Any ideas for getting more people interested are definitely worth presenting and discussing!

Bob-
First off, absolutely no offense taken. Honest; I'm glad that we are finding things to discuss and consider in order to promote the hobby.
You're absolutely correct to suggest that we should be thinking globally with regards to the hobby. We are always open to suggestions and volunteer help to promote the SubCommittee. The truth is, one of the things we have recently discussed is making the SCR a more accessible publication to anyone outside of the membership. Since moving to electronic distribution, this seems like it should easily decided. Ed's reply about someone printing off the Report for another member actually doesn't surprise me; there are always going to be people that may not have the technology to read it electronically, or may not like it presented that way. Unfortunately, or not, this is the way of the world today, and we need to continue to evolve or become irrelevant as you stated.
Your three points for leadership are well stated. (It's the second one that I'm concerned with because of past experiences with trying to get people to help.) I'll get with the other guys in the EC to discuss these points, and let's see what we can do to integrate Ed's, yours and ours into something that we can present as a way to think globally and move us forward.

[southern or]

Just a few things I've noticed...

First, good volunteers are hard to come by. My county recently (October-February) held a county wide fire academy for volunteers. There are 7 fire districts/departments for a county that's nearly 1,200 square miles in size and this academy started with 36 cadets and graduated 14. The one before it started with 16 and was canceled when the number dropped to 3. The average age for firefighters in this county is around 31, but it's higher in some departments and all but one have had to go to a paid and volunteer structure because the volunteer base just isn't there. People (at least around here) are working longer hours and as a result don't have a lot of free time. Doesn't help that the average rent around here starts at $1,500 a month and climbs while most jobs pay minimum wage so free time is now family time for most families around here and it's usually dedicated to that. Doesn't stop them from showing up to events though, and that's good. As I mentioned on my build thread, I've been really busy the last 5 months and this month isn't any different. This last weekend is THE ONLY weekend I'll have this month. My free time as of late has been doing household things and what little extra time I do get, is dedicated to getting a completed Kilo hull up and running and maybe a ARTR Destroyer going so I can bring something to an event. It really feels like cheating, but I just don't have the time do complete a kit by May right now and I had to give up my 4th of July to even make the float in May.

Now, what is the average age of people in this hobby? I went to a model boat club meeting over the weekend and was the youngest person in the room and I'm over 30 (I still joined). Yes, people always get excited whenever they see a boat of mine, but when asked if it's something they'd want to do and the answer is almost always, 'I can't afford it, I don't have any free time, I don't have the skills', and so on.

Another issue (at least in the US) is accessibility to places to sail at. I live on the Oregon coast, so obviously I have a LOT of sea water and brackish water I can't use and wind that kicks up waves that in scale would be a typhoon. There is one place that would be perfect, but the government in charge of it is making it nearly impossible to come to any sort of agreement. They'd rather I sailed in the over crowded and moderately contaminated lake. This is why I joined a club that's 2 hours away from me-one way. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to go to a sub event, but it'd need to be affordable for me to get/stay there and I'd need at least 10 months notice before hand.

Now, this bit really bothers me. It doesn't happen too much here, but it's a problem on Facebook and I think it needs to be addressed. This is a hobby and there are multiple ways of doing things in this hobby. With that said, when someone asks for help/advice/recommendations/sources/retailers, it isn't helpful when others immediately pick sides and make claims that one way/person is better than another, especially if the way you've started to do something isn't how someone else would do it. Same goes for choices in parts. No one is going to want to come back if they're made to look dumb for asking for help.

Just my thoughts/observations and offense is not intended.

JP

[greg w]

Just a suggestion , In the upcoming event section (which I believe is visible to non members) All of the subrons could post listings of upcoming gatherings, their contact info and the locations. I know that with my local chapter (subron 8) we have monthly runs , The winter runs are at a local ymca after hours and can't really be listed as an open to the public event. However our outdoor runs have been host to many other SC members . We have also had members of the buffalo boat club and the Syracuse boat club. We have been invited to several of their events as well. I feel we need to make it easier for newbies ( for lack of a better term) to find us. Before I joined up I wanted to meet up with the members of the 8 balls but didn't want to bother anyone with e mails and such. I am very glad that I finally broke down and contacted Big Dave and got involved in this obsession ( I mean hobby)

[chips]

I also belong to the Coast Guard Tug Association, a group for CG tugboat vets. We paired up with a U.S. Naval Sea Cadet unit a few years ago. Two years ago, I gave the group a presentation on history of boat models; and I took a couple of my r/c boats. During my lecture, I mentioned sub models, and the handout I provided had the SubCommittee listed along with other national model boat groups. The Sea Cadet drill was at a University Army ROTC class room, that was in the same building as a swimming pool. We made previous arrangement to use the pool, and anchored some buoys and let the kids run my boats through the buoys following a simple course.

Maybe we could partner with the Sea Perch program, a ROV (underwater robotics) program.

The Wisconsin Maritime Museum in Manitowoc has held a Sub Fest for the last 4 years. The museum has volunteers (a couple of SC members) set up a pool to run subs in and a separate pool for the ROV's. Sub vets from across the Midwest show up and are interested in our models.

[sam reichart]

Ideas! Keep them coming guys...thank you!

[bob_eissler]

Hey, has everybody been to the Model Boats Website? https://model-boats.com/
What do you think of it? I like that it is very visual, seems like it might be more engaging than our current format

[bob the builder]

Hey, has everybody been to the Model Boats Website? https://model-boats.com/
What do you think of it? I like that it is very visual, seems like it might be more engaging than our current format

OMG! My eyes! That page is crazy! The design looks like it's from about 10 years ago. That said, there is a lot of info on there. I just think it's WAY too busy and, quite frankly, really overwhelming.

[sam reichart]

OMG! My eyes! That page is crazy! The design looks like it's from about 10 years ago. That said, there is a lot of info on there. I just think it's WAY too busy and, quite frankly, really overwhelming.

I agree with Bob here; way too much "in your face" for a web page. There IS a ton of info there, but in my opinion, a professional web designer needs to do some cleanup on it.