Diving plane control

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  • paul von braun
    Junior Member
    • Jun 2004
    • 242

    #1

    Diving plane control

    [color=#000000]Dear all,
    obviously I will need two servos to operate the dive planes on my forthcoming type VII. Now, the big question is]
  • interpol
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 47

    #2
    Pretty sure you use a

    Pretty sure you use a y lead, unless you want individual control of them.

    You could use the fore diving planes as pitch control, while using the aft planes to actual control depth, but I believe most people keep them linked.

    Comment

    • skip asay
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2003
      • 247

      #3
      "You could use the fore

      "You could use the fore diving planes as pitch control, while using the aft planes to actual control depth, but I believe most people keep them linked."

      Au contraire! Bow planes control depth, stern planes control pitch. And most people DO NOT keep them linked. Combining 1 channel control for both bow and stern planes with the substantially different sensitivities of each can lead to some "quirky" submerged behavior.

      If there are enough channels available, use 2. If not, actively control the BOW PLANES, and use an automatic leveler that is capable of "standing alone" (no input signal) for the stern planes. That said, I believe APC-4 is the only leveler currently available which can stand alone. The Thordesign PC-2A is also capable of standing alone since it's actually an APC-4 in a box.

      Now before anybody tries to beat me up about linking bow and stern planes, yes, it can be done and yes, there are those who do it. But it's far from being an ideal arrangement.

      Skip Asay
      SubTech

      Comment

      • paul von braun
        Junior Member
        • Jun 2004
        • 242

        #4
        Can of worms, I've opened!!

        Can of worms, I've opened!!

        Comment

        • paul von braun
          Junior Member
          • Jun 2004
          • 242

          #5
          What about the Salcon unit

          What about the Salcon unit (available through otw)? Is this self levelling?

          Comment

          • JWLaRue
            Managing Editor, SubCommittee Report
            • Aug 1994
            • 4281

            #6
            The OTW Salcon provides the

            The OTW Salcon provides the same basic self-leveling function s the SubTech APC-4 pitch controller.

            I use both vendor's products and they work as advertised....great!

            -Jeff
            Rohr 1.....Los!

            Comment

            • paul von braun
              Junior Member
              • Jun 2004
              • 242

              #7
              Anyone used the engel mini

              Anyone used the engel mini leveller? See it here, thus]http://engel-modellbau.de/2002_en....d=621re[/url]

              And am I supposed to connect this levelling gadget to the fore or the aft planes?



              thanks,





              Paul Brown.

              Comment

              • skip asay
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2003
                • 247

                #8
                Since all submarine automatic leveling

                Since all submarine automatic leveling controls are, by definition, "self leveling" (unlike a helicopter gyro), what exactly do you mean by "self leveling"? Keep the boat level without an input signal? I could be mistaken, but I believe the OTW unit is Norbert Bruggen's leveler and the one I have here needs a signal. Jeff?

                Skip Asay
                SubTech

                Comment

                • skip asay
                  Junior Member
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 247

                  #9
                  "And am I supposed to

                  "And am I supposed to connect this levelling gadget to the fore or the aft planes?"

                  Any automatic leveler MUST be connected to the stern planes. The only automatic control that is connected to the bow planes is a depth controller.

                  Skip Asay
                  SubTech

                  Comment

                  • paul von braun
                    Junior Member
                    • Jun 2004
                    • 242

                    #10
                    I think that I must

                    I think that I must have originated the term 'self levelling' via the staff in my local model shop!! or bastardised the salcon 'auto leveller' (what a berk I have been!)

                    Thanks for the info so far chaps.




                    Paul Brown.

                    Comment

                    • JWLaRue
                      Managing Editor, SubCommittee Report
                      • Aug 1994
                      • 4281

                      #11
                      Skip and Paul,

                      I cannot speak

                      Skip and Paul,

                      I cannot speak directly to the origin of the OTW self leveler, but it does look like the ones from Norbert that I have seen.

                      Since I have always used an 8-channel radio, I have not made the effort to run the stern planes and self leveler without a channel.....being that I have 'extra'!

                      Personally, I *really* like the idea of being able to run the stern planes on a self leveler without consuming a channel. Other than an occasional adjustment to the stern planes, I never touch the channel that is connected to them while running.

                      ...and I would like it even more if we didn't lose total servo throw distance when running through either APC-3 or APC-4.

                      -Jeff
                      Rohr 1.....Los!

                      Comment

                      • paul von braun
                        Junior Member
                        • Jun 2004
                        • 242

                        #12
                        Okay, that matter cleared up

                        [color=#000000]Okay, that matter cleared up - how about connection? Am I to take it that the leveller sits in the circuit in between the servo and the reciever?

                        And (drum roll.........), my preferred set up configuation will be as follows]

                        Comment

                        • skip asay
                          Junior Member
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 247

                          #13
                          "...and I would like it

                          "...and I would like it even more if we didn't lose total servo throw distance when running through either APC-3 or APC-4."

                          Jeff - APC-4 has a total of 35 degrees travel in each direction when tilting it. If your boat has a severe bow down angle and you want to correct that, pulling back on the stick gives full transmitter throw at the servo. If you want to increase your bow down angle when diving, full stick forward yields approximately 10 degrees down servo travel which more often than not will increase the angle so much that the prop comes out of the water. Obviously, reversing these scenarios yields the same numbers in the opposite direction. But, since the stern planes are far more sensitive than bow planes, why do you feel that more travel is needed? All my boats have stern plane travel reduced as much as possible with servo linkage - I just can't stand seeing the prop come out of the water when diving! Or the bow coming out of the water at a 45 degree angle when surfacing! You've seen both Albacore and Marlin in the water many times. APC-4 in "stand alone" mode, servo linkage shortened considerably. Have you seen more realistic dive/surface action? Or perhaps I should say, the need for more travel?

                          Paul - You've hit the nail on the head!

                          Skip Asay
                          SubTech

                          Comment

                          • paul von braun
                            Junior Member
                            • Jun 2004
                            • 242

                            #14
                            FINE, HOORAY!!!!!!!!
                            Honestly, the trauma surgery

                            FINE, HOORAY!!!!!!!!
                            Honestly, the trauma surgery at work is easier than this to comprehend.


                            Thanks to all your suggestions chaps. Now the only point is 'Who's leveller to get?' Unbiased opinions please.



                            Thanks,




                            Paul.

                            Comment

                            • JWLaRue
                              Managing Editor, SubCommittee Report
                              • Aug 1994
                              • 4281

                              #15
                              Skip,

                              It sounds like you may

                              Skip,

                              It sounds like you may need to look at my APC-4. I am most definitely not getting a full (override?) throw of 35 degrees in each direction.

                              The 'up' throw is limited to approximately 5-10 degrees. the 'down' throw looks to be in the 30-35 degree range. (This from measuring with the Mark-1 Eyeball!)

                              -Jeff
                              Rohr 1.....Los!

                              Comment

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