No more cup seals, bellows, or o-rings! My Magnetic End Cap

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  • salmon
    Treasurer
    • Jul 2011
    • 2327

    No more cup seals, bellows, or o-rings! My Magnetic End Cap

    Years ago, I played with a magnet connector for my prop shaft. It did not work for me. It kept slipping and did not have that gription (not a real word, but I like it). Recently, a gentleman named Nick, made one that he liked. That got me back to thinking about it again and using magnets for the drive line and while I am at it, the pushrods too. I think my issue before was woefully too weak of magnets, but did not feel like spending more time or money on it. So, this time around, I injected some testosterone into the mix (think "Home Improvement"). To add to this, technology has changed, we now have 3D printing and I can now express my thoughts better into a tangible result.

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    Here is the 3.5” prototype, In the center is the geared magnetic drive. The rod coming out of the hole is attached to a cylinder magnet.

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    With everything removed, There is a nipple in the center that a bearing rides on. In this prototype there are 3 holes that are more like cups in that it is sealed at the end. What is missing (and will be put in the next print) is the water intake for the piston.

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    This is the wet side showing the three cups or sealed tubes that the magnet moves inside. Also like the dry side there is a nipple here too. I am concerned the cylinders getting broken. However making the tubes go inward rather than outward adds more issues that I might need to tackle if these are too vulnerable.

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    A side view of the assembly put together. I needed to drill out the cylinders a little to make the movement smooth with the internal magnet. The outside needed a little bit of sanding to knock out the nibs of the supports. However, the motion and strength of these magnets is really good. Maybe too much strength, but really pleased with the outcome.

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    This shows the magnet used on the wet side and the pushrod magnet from the dry side.

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    Another shot without the dry side pushrod magnet.

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    The geared magnet drive is setup with a bearing in the center and 4 magnets. The nipple will rest on the center ring of the bearing. the outer surface of the bearing is affixed to the drive. As it rotates it will spin freely.


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    The wet side is identical to the dry just designed to attach to a 3/16” shaft to the prop.

    Issues - I made the nipples a little too small. I was being very conservative and trying to keep the distance as close as possible. However, once the magnets came in I realized (well tested) even with 5mm of resin between the magnets they held up. So, I know if threes an issue with the thinner wall, I can add more thickness to it. You can see in the photos that they are rubbing against the end cap. For giggles, I will drill out the nipple and insert a brass rod to see how it rides.
    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
  • thor
    SubCommittee Member
    • Feb 2009
    • 1453

    #2
    Pretty cool, Tom! Mag drive pumps have been using this technology for nearly 50 years. It works really well as long as you can keep the magnets properly lined up. Sometimes the pump couplings will "jump" of their associated magnet on the other side and require a mechanical reset to re-align the system. The way you have this system set up should take care of that. Nice work!
    Last edited by thor; 01-09-2022, 07:25 PM.
    Regards,

    Matt

    Comment

    • salmon
      Treasurer
      • Jul 2011
      • 2327

      #3
      Thanks Matt!
      The idea of using magnets like this has been around for a long time and even for our hobby it has been done before. There are not too many new ideas, but we build off what others have started.
      I love the ability to try things out and keep my brain going.
      If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

      Comment

      • Jakub
        Member
        • May 2021
        • 34

        #4
        A deep dive WTC cap! Nicely done, the pushrod idea is especially brilliant.

        I did experiment with such magnetic clutches/seals some time ago too, but encountered an issue - the motor began taking a lot more amps from the battery. It was caused by the strong rare earth magnets influencing the motor's magnetic field. This was issue number 1. Sadly issue number 1 caused a bigger issue - number 2 - those additional amps had to go somewhere, if they didn't go into speed or torque... They obviously went straight into heat. Of course this can most likely can be avoided by a proper distance between the motor and the magnetic clutch/seal, but it's worth for you to keep an eye on.
        My knowledge base and blog:
        www.RCshipyard.com

        Comment

        • salmon
          Treasurer
          • Jul 2011
          • 2327

          #5
          Jakub,
          Thank you, that will be the next hurdle. I am certain there will be many versions before or if this will work well enough to put in a boat.
          If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

          Comment

          • wlambing
            SubCommittee Member
            • Feb 2003
            • 843

            #6
            What will take into account the slippage from answering a Back Emergency bell?? That one gets used a lot during Fun Runs and Regattas!!

            Comment

            • Ralph --- SSBN 598
              Junior Member
              • Oct 2012
              • 1417

              #7
              The magnetic interference issue can be handled by increasing the distance from motor to clutch.
              Say put the servos between the motor and clutch.
              And then using steel sheet to make a barrier between the motor, servos and clutch.
              Steel soup can lids will stop magnetic lines of flux and not add too much weight.

              Comment

              • MSM
                SubCommittee Member
                • Aug 2020
                • 1

                #8
                Nice work Tom! I think you may have saw this video that I posted before with the magnetic clutch drives I recently made.

                Quick demonstration testing the brushless motors spinning the twin propeller shafts of the type VII model build.


                Thought I had a video on my YouTube channel demonstrating the slip clutches slipping when I physically stalled the shafts showing the difference in amperage draw but I think I may have posted that video directly from my phone to the Subcommittee Facebook page.

                Anyways they work awesome with no additional amperage draw, no problems with the brushless motors and no problem going full ahead to full astern in emergencies.

                Keep up the awesome work buddy. I like where you are going with this!

                Nick

                Comment

                • salmon
                  Treasurer
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 2327

                  #9
                  Nick,
                  You got me going down this path again so thank you!
                  I am using a brushed motor, but maybe move to brushless later. Nick, I follow all you do, love your thinking.
                  Peace,
                  Tom
                  If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                  Comment

                  • coryhenry
                    Member
                    • Jun 2020
                    • 107

                    #10
                    Tom, It appears your PM inbox is full

                    Comment

                    • salmon
                      Treasurer
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 2327

                      #11
                      Cleared out some messages, thank you Cory!
                      If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                      Comment

                      • salmon
                        Treasurer
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 2327

                        #12
                        Bill,
                        The magnets I put in, may not have any slippage (well that is not 100% accurate)…..I might have used too strong a magnet. Testing is coming up soon.
                        Peace,
                        Tom
                        If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                        Comment

                        • salmon
                          Treasurer
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 2327

                          #13
                          Ralph,
                          That may be needed, will know more in time. Thank you!
                          See you pond side Saturday.
                          Peace,
                          Tom
                          If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                          Comment

                          • QuarterMaster
                            No one
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 607

                            #14
                            I see the headline...

                            Nevada man builds Magnetar, local RC group falls into spatial rift!
                            v/r "Sub" Ed

                            Silent Service "Cold War" Veteran (The good years!)
                            NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.
                            USS ULYSSES S GRANT-USS SHARK-USS NAUTILUS-USS KEY WEST-USS KRAKEN-USS PATRICK HENRY-HMS VENGEANCE-U25-SSRN SEAVIEW-PROTEUS-NAUTILUS

                            Comment

                            • salmon
                              Treasurer
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 2327

                              #15
                              Did some assembly on the end cap. Very pleased. Will be mounting motor and running some tests......Photos will be coming.
                              If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                              Comment

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