Piston Tanks - proportional control

[sam reichart]

I thought of the fateful question about buying a fully working model or build a totally DIY model.
I would be oriented towards a model fully built by myself. For simple reasons. It is much more satisafactory and then in my life i would love to learn as many things as possible even at cost of many frustrations.
It will be possible? I suppose yes. Then if i only have sailing pleasure i lost half the taste. Like for the holidays, maybe the journey is part of the whole.

For now i only can study the subject matter because i have no money to start the project.
Then i have a baby 14 months old and have no much freetime.
But i started to think something to share with him. Something of manual ability to teach him to hold the welder in his hand.
:-)

My favourite candidate will be the Typhhon, i love it. But maybe it will be a little too much challenging as the first submarine?
As i said i have no troubles with bang my head over it and if it will take a long time. But i need something really challenging otherwise after a while I lose interest.
Then i don't want to put on money and work hours in costruction of simple subs only to become familiar with. I would like to learn while doing.
This is my point of view.
But maybe i could be too pretentious... It is possible that I do not realize it because i am a newbie.
In this case i could switch towards Alfa or Akula.
Then the Typhoon may be too bigger and difficult to store and to carry out.
Plese can you give me some of your thoughts about that?

Question about sailing. Is it inadvisable to put sub in the sea? For RC waves distribution or other?
I ask it because i live near the sea and not near lakes.

Thanks for every help.

Salt water (seawater) requires the antenna be above the surface of the water; radio signals cannot penetrate salt water.
Do yourself a favor and find a pond or a lake (or a pool) in which to run your boat. Adding salt water management (floating an antenna) to what you have already described you wish to do is just adding risk to your project.

[JWLaRue]

My favourite candidate will be the Typhhon, i love it. But maybe it will be a little too much challenging as the first submarine?
.....
Then the Typhoon may be too bigger and difficult to store and to carry out.
Plese can you give me some of your thoughts about that?

If you are (still) looking to build your own hull, then I wouldn't say that the Typhoon is really any more difficult to build than the Akula or Alfa. Mastering the basic skills for creating a master and doing the fiberglass lay-up work will be where the big learning curve is.

-Jeff

[Ivcarlo]

I broke into the thread about ballast with piston thanks but now conversations go towards other directions.
It will be better to shift in some other place?


I live in Italy in the center and near the east cost. It takes about 20 minutes togo to the sea. It's a bad blow that rc have problems with salt water i hoped to take it to the sea. Maybe i will use the sub as an excuse to discover new places with lakes...
And you Tom? Where do you live?

But the problems only concern the EM propagation inside the sea water and damage that salt may do tho the hull? Or are there other critical issues?

About the egel kits i have already seen those models. I like them but maybe for me it's better to start step by step. So to delay the expenses.
Maybe it only a mental issue.

Hi, Ivan

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

Hello. Ivan.I started a long time ago.
I built my own everything.
Still do.
Last summer I bought an Engels Akula II.

To compare the Akula II to the Revell Skipjack that I built all the inside stuff myself.
I keep spread sheets on my builds and I can tell you that building my own cylinder was cheaper but not by much after gathering all the raw materials and working them to fit properly to mack water tight seals.

My Skipjack took several months to complete to where it ran well. (it is now the boat I make changes to to test different systems)

The Engels Akula II took 21 days, building 2 to 3 hours a day to assemble completely and have it in the water running. (just follow the instructions provided)
No problem in the water even on the first run.

The cost difference from building my own and getting the kit was a couple hundred dollars.
The time difference was over a year.

I can tell you I built my first sub in 1991 and started my second boat about 93.
The second boat was never competed and I lost interest because of slow progress.
There were no kits back then I could find.
No internet then.

I think getting a full kit or a good hull kit so you can get your first boat in the water is a good idea.
Then you can run it while you build your own boat.

\Yes, building your own boat teach you a lot of new thnngs but it is not running the boat.
It teaches you how different materials go together or do not go together.
Learning how to find the needed ballast tank volume is "FUN" as well.

Then there are the tools needed.
Building your own boat will need tools. Drill press, band saw, dremel just a few you might need.

The Engels boat required, screw driver, knife for a little plastic trimming, a couple of small wrenches and a soldering iron.

I currently have 3 boats that run.
3 different ballast systems.
I will say, I like the piston system the best and have only had it since last summer.
There is less maintenance before a run.

Raising a family. Yep been there.
You could start by putting a few dollars away each week.
During that time you can ask more questions to better understand what it is you are getting in to.
And then you can make a better choice for your situation.

If you enjoy the building process, by all means build from scratch or a hull only kit.
Submarines are not complicated but have a lot of things going on that a surface boat/airplane does not.

There are people who make many of the parts needed, all the way to complete boats.
But there is always the cost and or time involved.
==================
You can run in salt water but you will be limited to needing the antenna to be about 1" above the surface to have control.
Or you have to tow a float with the antennae on it. (not practical. Gets hung up on things and the propeller)
Even in some swimming pools with lots of chemicals in them have the same requirement.
Then there is the need to do a good clean up with fresh water after the running.

This is all part of the learning to run submarines.

[sam reichart]

A great reply, Ralph.
I could add that you might look for a used kit that someone is selling, but you could be inheriting problems that aren't obvious and that could be very discouraging as well.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

You are correct.
I did not mention used boats because they are like used cars.
You never know why the original owner is selling.
Just buying up.
Or selling a problem they no longer what to deal with.

Unless you can see the used boat running and maybe even get some stick time, you can plan on a complete overhaul.
Right down to the bare internals.

I have seen 2 good boats sold and bought this past year.
The owner is well known to the RC sub community and these boats where is almost prefect condition or better. (ran weekly)
I was interested in 1 of these boats but I have the same issues.
Getting old and launching and recovery is getting harder. I passed on the boat. ;^(
Reason for selling.
Original owner, like all of us is getting older and the boats where getting to be a lot of work launching and retrieving. (the boats were on the large side)
Original owner was moving to smaller, lighter boats and is still running boats every week.

I have also seen, 1 e-bay buy that turned out to be a little more than parts.
The hull was rebuilt down to removing all the wtc saddles to realign the upper and lower hull.

A used kit....Look for an un built kit or just the hull has been joined.
Finding or making the small control surface parts is not hard to do once you find a drawing or good photo.

[salmon]

Ivan,
I live in Las Vegas Nevada - USA.
I think I am one of the people Ralph is talking about and I believe I know who the second one was. I bought the Sjöorman sub from a gentleman that makes amazing WTC piston systems. I passed on purchasing the first sub (which I regret), but when this one came open, I could not let it go. Ralph is correct about used subs. I normally do not buy used subs because of the issues that come with it. However, since I have seen this sub run, ran the sub myself, and know the builder, I had no qualms purchasing it.
I have not built the Engel Akula II, so take my comments with that in mind, but know several that have (Ralph being one of them) and it is close to the experience of building from the ground up, you are assembling and testing as if from components. You just have all the components and parts all ready there and will have a sub that is proven to be a good running sub. Giving you a great experience on the first sub. It has it's frustrations, but they are reduced significantly.
I just look forward to you getting a sub in the water and look forward to whatever direction you will go.
Peace,
Tom

[Ivcarlo]

Ralph, really great survey! Really a good investigation of the whole. Thank you for reporting all your experience.

I will take some time to think about it.
I am certainly very interested on the build of the hull. But the Engel Akula II Kit advised by Ralph and Tom maybe can be the right initial choice.
It's not too big and i would know if i like to run with it. I don't know.

I have no experience at all about running. How it goes?
I think it is a passion that must be shared with someone, with friends. Maybe some races between friends. Otherwise i think it becomes tiring and boring after half an hour going up and down. Isn't it?
The point is. How much interesting have i about the hull building compared to satisfaction in running?
It' s important to figure out because for now i am lonely and i don't want that i would lose interest and not take out it form basement.

Questions over other questions.
:-)

[salmon]

There are R/C submariners in Italy.....I will check to see if I still have information.

[salmon]

http://www.nonsolovele.com

I found this site and sent emails to the name I had. We will see what happens.

http://www.giemmesesto.org/model-expo-italy-2018/
Too late for this one, but maybe someone you can contact.

[Ivcarlo]

Good!
I saw the majority of the events are situated in the northern Italy.
I've written on the forum Betasom and asked if are there some sailor near my place. Or in the nearer regions.
:-)

I started to download the Subcommittee reports... Very good!
I appreciate all the work you do!

And i saw the big of the navigation happens inside swimming pools...