HMS Repulse 1/96 RC scratch build

[steveuk]

Ok here are some video's worth watching, there are some views of all four Resolution class (and other Brit nukes).

First up look out for:-
00:45 secs - foreground is Resolution on left with Revenge lying right next to her, whilst over in the distance can be seen Renown (against jetty) and Repulse lying outboard next to her. All four sister ships together.
Here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIQUMwsIvs


Dave, note the missing rudder with black/white striped warning pole on Revenge's stern - look familiar!? This imo identifies the sub in your drydock pics as being in fact Revenge. (If MOD didn't say which sub these pics were of).



00:30 is Resolution launch, - note Repulse under construction next to her on the next slipway at Barrow in Furnace.
01:30 is Resolution today - note how years of sun and weather have bleached the tiles.
03:28 is Revenge outboard with Resolution inboard against jetty.
04:12 is Repulse outboard with Renown inboard against jetty.
04:33 is Revenge's stern - rudder has been removed and also a huge chunk of the missile casing has been cut out - this gives excellent contour information for this part of the casing transition, and also information on the towed array casing. Looks to be very similar to Casimir Pulaski except ours run down the port side and US subs run down the starbd side.

[Davidh]

Hi Steve,

Yes I have watched this video before and snap shotted some of the back end of Resolution showing the detail of the missile deck curving down to the hull. Some good detail in there. I was not told which boat was photographed in those images. but I recognise the lines and the lack of stern. Busy today hacking away at the Master that's been sitting up in the roof of the Garage. Took to it with a tenon saw , files and determination. My first task was to flatted the fore ward deck and then cut it down further. My bow section was simply too high. and too rounded.

After printing of some pics of the R class boats last night I sat down and did some maths to work out heights, lengths and percentages of various sections of the hull. I worked out that my missile deck does not have enough sidewards slope on it and sits too high above the main pressure hull. After about two hours of furious filing sawing and shredding sandpaper I've ended up with a hull that looks better already. Sweaty work, It's March and it's still 29 degrees? Whats with this weather...

Soon I will start cutting out some profile templates to make sure that the upper hull is symmetrical. Still lots more sanding, filing and filling to do..

David H

[steveuk]

Hi Dave, wow you're really fired up. It's great to see your enthusiasm. Your build is already looking more like the real thing, well done. Take a look at this pic and fix on those concentric lines radiating around the casing - they are like a contour map showing the way, these are what your profile gauges should resemble as the rounded bow area transitions to the flat sidewalls of the missile casing.

I will do some more pics of my model because I still have loads of concentric lines still penciled on, and they help describe the smooth transition nicely.

[steveuk]

Here is a pic of the bow of a Churchill class. Resolutions were effectively stretched Churchills. The entire center missile section was built to US design with a British designed bow and stern added. That's why the family likeness is there between Churchill and Resolution class. I would say the bow shape is good to about the dive planes and from there on the shape has to widen to incorporate the wide missile casing. But bow shape around sonar window is much the same. For the center missile section look also at US Ethan Allen class and you will see they appear to be identical to Resolution center missile sections, right down to the garden gate hinges. Knowing how Resolution was designed explains why. But for us it means more sub classes can be looked at for ref of certain parts. Just need to be a bit careful.
So, in short Churchill class good for Bow and stern ref, Ethan Allen class good for center missile section ref.

[steveuk]

Dave here are some pics that might help with your missile casing shape and proportions.

[steveuk]

Dave I did a little photoshop on the stern of your model pic - your stern planes and rudder post are going to need some tweeking.

[Davidh]

Hi Steve,

Thankyou for the bit of photoshop magic. I will be re doing the Horizontal planes at the rear as well as the top of the hull. Managed to do a little shaping this afternoon. Already Resolution is looking better. Lowering and widening the missile deck is doing wonders. I just have to get the gradual rounding of the top of the bow as it approaches the very bow, just right and she will look the part.

I emailed MOD again on Monday. Have not heard back from them which is a little surprising as they would have at least sent me a letter saying about considering national security and that they'd get back to me in 30 days after a decision, which could very well be the decision to get back to me in a another 30 days. I did however find another Gem....

Another photo of Repulse stuck on the sandbar. Once again showing her whole length. So my question is, why is this photo now only available? So this photo must be around 50 years old and I'm guessing was taken by a bystander, so why has it not been in the public domain all this time? Or did someone from the MOD walk up to the photographer say " ello ello ,lets 'ave the camera please?" As mentioned before I can get great pics of Vanguard which IS IN SERVICE but not a boat that has been out of service for 20 years. Why the inconsistency?
Come on MOD spill the beans please! , these boats I gather won't be around much longer...

I've been wondering why Ron was told that the pics he took were never to be released to the public. I would assume anything of sensitive national security issue would have been long removed from the boat. Could his camera reveal some hydrodynamic curve or shape that was still employed? Could it be that there was some system of piece of equipment 'pinched' from the American's that the RN had not secured the rights for? I'm scratching my head on this one.

Anway Steve, I would love to have some pics of your bow before the weekend if that's at all possible. I want to look at developing bow details and scribing.

Surely now that these boats are due to be broken up they can release more pics.

[steveuk]

Another photo of Repulse stuck on the sandbar. Once again showing her whole length. So my question is, why is this photo now only available? So this photo must be around 50 years old and I'm guessing was taken by a bystander, so why has it not been in the public domain all this time? Or did someone from the MOD walk up to the photographer say " ello ello ,lets 'ave the camera please?" As mentioned before I can get great pics of Vanguard which IS IN SERVICE but not a boat that has been out of service for 20 years. Why the inconsistency?

Hi Dave,
The stranded on mud flat picture is not new in itself, but normally it's a cropped version I've seen with the end part of the stern missing, out of frame. This is the first time I have seen the full length hull shown in this pic. Thank you for sticking it up here! This photo is important because it shows us the real curve of the stern all the way down to the prop bearing and also the position of the rudder post, respective to the end of the stern. In the Repulse launch booklet there is a photo of a large prototype scale model going into a test tank and even that photo had been 'touched up' by censors so it looks like men standing next to a cartoon sub. I agree with you, it makes little sense now to be so protective about these old subs. Unless there are things which are still in use on Vanguard and Astute. My friend has a theory that as Resolution class neared the end of their service they were used as test beds for improvements that would inform design of the upcoming new Vanguard class replacements. And I have to say I agree with him. Consider for example the bow plane fairings. They appear to have been trialed on Resolution class then they appear in the new Vanguard class design. Next take a look at Res's main bow sonar. These look to be more or less the same shape on Vanguard, except they flipped the position to the lower hull for Vanguard. Maybe these sub classes share more than they would like us to know..

I will take some photos of my bow for you. If you are getting ready to scribe details on your bow this Huge pic of Repulse is a great reference.

[steveuk]

Dave, as requested here are some different angles of my bow. The pics didn't come out brilliantly sharp as I did them at night with the room top light on. But at least it shows the general shapes quite well. As I mentioned before, I am building the bow shape as originally launched with the flat sonar cover (seen as the shaded area on my model), and then later on I will be adding on top of this the more rounded refit sonar cover shape. I just thought it would give me a more accurate refit profile if I added the modifications on top of the original flat sonar cover like the real thing.

[Davidh]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the pics. I thought pretty quickly after making the statement that I would not be up to scribing this weekend, was a bit ambitious. I have spent the weekend still with overall shape development. You've got to get that straight. I was really surprise at how wide the very bow section is. But I have to say it's looking very nice. My bow section does not maintain overall maximum beam that far forward. It looks like yours maintains it up till nearly the very bow. I really want to avoid fattening the beam so far forward, I don't know if I want to remould the whole bottom of the boat again!

Have you drawn up drawings of your deck detail? I would love to see close ups of your bow detail in particular. I have been intrigued for a while as to what those long rectangular panels are end on end that run from parralell just in front of the fore planes. What are they? Lockers for deck equipment? Are they raised because they look flush with the hull? It is interesting how after the boats were decommissioned all these deck details have been removed. As you mentioned earlier lots of metal panels welded on and stuff covered over.

I wrote to the MOD. They have informed me that they will reply around April 8. I wonder if it will be to tell me that they will then make a decision to get back to me around May 8th!

Anyway , to my build. I spent the weekend fine tuning the overall shape. I don't think that I'm far off. It certainly is a lot less work than last time as I have a virtually complete hull , I'm just making some changes on top. As you can see from the photos I have the challenge of getting everything symmetrical. Trying my hardest here. I have mounted the hull on a board and am using gauges to ascertain an accurate axis line and then marking hull profiles off this. I then took some vertical views and front end views, I will then print off these pics and then trace the contour lines on film, then flip them over to do comparisons.

after marking the contour lines I then gave the hull a couple of coats of polyester resin to get a nice smooth finish and one that I can use to see surface reflections and contour details. Looking reasonable so far. Then marking out further areas where high spots need to be sanded down and where low spots need to be filled in.

Anyway another week, another dollar, I ordered the new book "The Silent Deep" looks like a cracker read. Should be arriving this week, fingers crossed. It looks like the first decent thorough write up on the British Nuc sub fleet post WW2.

I would love feedback from anyone who can shed light on whether my hull forms look realistic. I really need to know photoshop well enough to take a pic of the original boat and one of mine from the same angle and superimpose them over each other, make one pale and almost translucent and do a shape comparison that way..

David H

[steveuk]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the pics. I thought pretty quickly after making the statement that I would not be up to scribing this weekend, was a bit ambitious. I have spent the weekend still with overall shape development. You've got to get that straight. I was really surprise at how wide the very bow section is. But I have to say it's looking very nice. My bow section does not maintain overall maximum beam that far forward. It looks like yours maintains it up till nearly the very bow. I really want to avoid fattening the beam so far forward, I don't know if I want to remould the whole bottom of the boat again!

Have you drawn up drawings of your deck detail? I would love to see close ups of your bow detail in particular. I have been intrigued for a while as to what those long rectangular panels are end on end that run from parralell just in front of the fore planes. What are they? Lockers for deck equipment? Are they raised because they look flush with the hull? It is interesting how after the boats were decommissioned all these deck details have been removed. As you mentioned earlier lots of metal panels welded on and stuff covered over.

Hi Dave, Without proper line drawings we have to keep comparing model to photos at different angles. Actually my bow starts to taper roughly from the tips of the lateral arrays. But it's a shallow curve until it reaches roughly the sonar window.
btw don't be afraid to disagree with me, if you think I made a mistake and have mine too wide let me know. We're all trying to get the shape of this thing right! I photoshoped onto Resolution drydock pic to examine how much the beam tapers and where.
I agree with you, you're not far off with yours now. I like your DIY rotating device - I have something very similar, essential for marking concentric lines around the hull. The profile gauges I make up are simply cut out of thin cardboard (actually cereal boxes), it's quick and easy to cut and shape using sandpaper. I number them to match the markings on the hull. Then flip them over to the other side of hull to test for symmetry.

I've got separate drawings of different parts of the deck as I worked in sections at a time. The rectangular hatches down on the bow - the five squarish hatches down the center are access for torpedo reloading. The five hatches all unbolt and lift off completely leaving one long rectangular hole. The smaller rectangular panels to the sides of them - I'm not sure exactly but I have seen photo's of other Brit subs reloading torpedoes and showing panels like this hinged up to form horizontal working platforms for the submariners to stand on during reload operations. The panels themselves are flush mounted into the deck, but during refit this whole portion of the bow seems to get a thin coating of rubber sheet glued on (not the much thicker tiles which are applied further down the hull). Those rectangular panels also get rubber sheet glued on. The rubber sheet has to stop short of the bolts which run around the panel edges. So you end up with raised rubber sections and gaps in between. The gaps in between are where the lines of bolts are, but the bolts are also flush in the deck so you only see them on VERY close up pics. I have got tighter in on this bow pic so hopefully you can see how the rubber layer forms these raised areas.

[Davidh]

Hi Steve,

Could you possibly email me those deck drawings? Is that O.K?

I noticed something curious that may be you have picked up on but I only did when I looked at two bow photo's, one from when one of the class had what I call the second fore plane mounting and another the (AFD600) photo showing the solid box mounting for the planes. The earlier photo is included and was obviously taken from the sail. It shows the safety rail going well forward beyond the foreplanes. It then bends around to the left, avoiding a hole with a rod coming out of it. In the AFD600 photo if you look at the safety rail before the planes going back it literally disappears under the box like plane mount. Was it simply welded over? It then reappears a couple of feet back and more towards the centre as it runs back toward the right side of the transducer.

Now another thing you may shed light one. My understanding of the box structure supporting the foreplanes is that this was the last major reconstruction of the foreplane mounting. I believe that there were three evolutions. The first when the boat was launched has the round shafts extending out the side attached to the planes. Then they streamlined them with a profile that matched the planes. They this last boxy one. I have not dates at to when these were done. It is also thrown by the fact that there is a photo of HMS revenge taken in 1991 with soviet generals standing on the deck. I don't have a digital copy of this pic, however Revenge still has the second foreplane design. Not the latter one. Did Revenge not receive it?

This photo annoys me. They would let a soviet general look at a Boomer but they wouldn't let an Aussie do so. I would have through that the Russian general would have been more of a security threat than a pesky Aussie!! Why? surely if they're showing the Russians around then they really don't have any excuses!

Also do you have any idea as to why they have painted the big circle in the middle of the foreplanes, red? It only seems to appear on one pic of the bow whilst one of the R class is in Faslane next to an Ohio. I don't have this photo either.


dave

[steveuk]

Hi David, ok I will email you.

My gosh you keep coming up with Fab photo's!. Ones that I have not seen before. Your search skills are way better than mine!
To answer your questions, (but please bear in mind I am just like you, researching by looking at photos and good old detective work), I honestly believe that the bow plane mounting/bearing does not change underneath and that the various 'box structures' are simply hollow fairings designed to cover over and streamline this part to improve the underwater profile (to increase underwater speed and reduce acoustic signature). Notice how Brit subs Vanguard and Astute which follow on from Res class both incorporate this same shape into their hull design. But yes they just seem to add these streamlined fairings straight onto the existing hull form and in the process the safety rail around the bow planes gets partly obscured as you noticed. Just out of interest, the safety rail runs all the way from bow to stern in one unbroken line snaking its way around various hatches and obstacles, following close around the port side of the tower and then on between the missile hatches, and finishing on the end of the curve down the missile deck.
Did Revenge receive the final refit bow plane fairings like the others - well I have photos of Resolution, Repulse, and Renown all with refit bow plane fairings so I've no reason to think Revenge would be any different. Revenge and Renown don't seem to have many pics out there though so I can't confirm that. I also have to add my earlier comment that Res and Revenge didn't get hull tiling is not quite true - I realised that the Rosyth pic (the one with the chunk of missile deckremoved) is actually showing the stern of Res and Revenge - and this pic shows remains of tiling on the hulls! Only the stern is seen though. I have not yet found a single photo of Res and Revenge with tiling all over.
The big red circle - a flat metal ring gets added to the deck sometime. It surrounds the forward escape hatch. This ring is what you see painted red. I believe the flat ring is to assist DSRV docking. There is a similar flat circle around the stern escape hatch. Later the big red circle gets painted over black again and from then on just a small red circle appears around the hole in the center of the outer escape hatches.

Best regards,
Steve.

[steveuk]

Looking at this dry dock pic (left) I spotted that the side parts of the sonar window actually run straight and flat. So I have made some adjustments and filed down the sides of my sonar area to match. It has made a definite difference. The waterline is now looking more pointy - which is what I see in waterline pics of Res class. Good sign. Now that I am happy with the original style bow foundation I can think about adding the proper refit profile shape onto it..

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

Comparing photos to what I build is exactly how I am currently building a 1903 B-boat.
There are no plans I could find. Only a very bad profile drawing.
So, I find photos and then place my work at the same angle and see it they look the same.

Like the photo to your hull, it becomes mush easier to see lines that are not correct.

One thing to be careful of or look for...photos that were taken with close up lens.
They tend to put a slight curve on straight line that are easy to miss.
Make sure to compare what you are looking at to something else in the photo you know and see if there is distortion.

I worked on a part for some time, then I found a photo take from a different angle.
My curved part ended up being a very straight but bent along the hull part.

Nice work you have going on.