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I just finished reading Priens' book, " I sank the Royal Oak." In the forword, Prien was described as a "good Nazi" (as in hard core)....that he treated his crew rather contemptuously as well as his fellow kaleuns..That he was not very well liked. I was wondering if anyone could suggest any other reading that might shed some light on his character. I seem to remember reading in other places that Prien was one of the more political skippers and an avid Nazi......and although I am sure he wasnt the only one, I had always heard that those in the U boat community were not really political. I have also read recently that there are persistent rumors that he ended up in a concentration camp ( for refusing to obey orders I believe) rather than being sunk with all hands. I find this very dubious but apparantley there are witnesses ...or were witnesses I should say that said they personally saw him in the camp. Can anyone share any other information on this? Thanx...Rick
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Has anyone read the book
Has anyone read the book " Enemy Submarine " by Wolfgang Frank.....or know where I might get a copy of this out of print book? Thanx....Rick -
Hi Rick,
You'll enjoy Enemy Submarine
Hi Rick,
You'll enjoy Enemy Submarine as it details Prien's operational career. You can find it at -
http://www.alibris.com/
The author Wolfgang Frank obviously liked and respected Prien. His book is much better than I Sank the Royal Oak, which has many factual inaccuracies. The latter was ghost written, and Prien was not amused by the mistakes that ended up in the book that bears his name.
The son of one of the crewmen who served during the Scapa raid told me that the crew all worshipped Prien. Naturally there would have been some crewmen who didn't like him, as we would expect of any commander. As Prien was a disciplinarian who did not suffer fools gladly there must have been quite a few men who did not enjoy his company.
Prien was also competitive in terms of tonnage, which may have caused some friction with other commanders. He was a party member but I don't know how political he really was.
You are right that there were rumours that he died in a camp. One rumour was that he refused to put to sea due to the technical condition of U 47. All silly rumours, of course!
Cheers,
DougieComment
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Hi Doug......thanx for the info...I
Hi Doug......thanx for the info...I ordered the book today.....I assumed that the talk of Prien ending up in a concentration camp was nonsense......I have read a few other bits and pieces about Prien and am looking forward to reading this book....I appreciate you taking the time to respond.....thank you.....RickComment
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Doug,
please note your email address
Doug,
please note your email address as listed in your profile is not working.
therefore you are not alerted to PM's and suchlike.
Regards,
Ronald van AalstComment
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Hi Ronald,
Thanks for the reminder.
Hi Ronald,
Thanks for the reminder. I have changed the email now.
Cheers,
Dougie
PS Rick, you might also enjoy Nightmare at Scapa Flow by HJ Weaver, which put a lot of controversies about the Royal Oak sinking to bed.Comment
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Thanx Doug....ordered that one also.......will
Thanx Doug....ordered that one also.......will let you know what I think after reading them both.....thanx again for your suggestions....RickComment
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Hi Doug....I have finished Nightmare
Hi Doug....I have finished Nightmare at Scapa Flow...it definitely gives you a lot more insight on the Scapa Flow raid.....very interesting.....I have finally just received "Enemy Submarine" from Alibris...so that will be next.....Thanx again for your excellent suggestions....The controversy was brought up in the book, but was pretty much dismissed as unsubstantiated....it was also interesting to read what Priens widow had to say about his reaction to the celebrity status that was unwillingly bestowed on him.....and his attitudes towards the party in general....good stuff.....RickComment
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Hi Rick,
Glad you enjoyed the
Hi Rick,
Glad you enjoyed the book. Another one you might like is "The Royal Oak Disaster" by Gerald S Snyder." This is a very decent account of the Scapa Raid.
"The Phantom Of Scapa Flow" by Alexandre Korganoff is worth reading too. But this does contain a number of factual inaccuracies.
Hope you enjoy Enemy Submarine.
Cheers,
DougieComment
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Hi Doug....when you say that
Hi Doug....when you say that you spoke with a son of a former crewman....would that happen to be the son of Herbert Hermann?? Have you been to Scapa yourself?? I am assuming that you have.....probably more than once.....right?? To find the running gear from not one but two of the torpedoes fired by Prien is quite remarkable....how would you like that as a souvenir?? Wow.....Comment
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Hi Rick,
Well guessed! Yes, it
Hi Rick,
Well guessed! Yes, it was the son of Hermann I spoke to.
I've been to Scapa, though only once so far. Lovely place. If you ever get a chance to go, don't go in November like I did. It was bloody freezing and blowing a gale at times. I made the error of paddling into Scapa - my feet are still thawing out!
Below is a photo of Churchill barrier number 1, looking roughly west towards Scapa. Barrier 1 is through Kirk Sound, the channel than U 47 used to penetrate Scapa.
The curator of the Stromness Museum in Stromness, Orkney allowed me to photograph the remains of one of the G7e torpedoes fired at the Royal Oak.
The artifact is much heavier than it looks!
There are a number of artifacts in the museum from the ships scuttled in Scapa after WW1. They are very interesting too. There are some large parts from some of the scuttled ships at another museum, this time on the island of Hoy.
Orkney is some place when the sun is shining and you've thawed out.
Cheers,
DougieComment
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Hi Doug.....great pictures....I guess all
Hi Doug.....great pictures....I guess all the block ships that were placed in Kirk sound are all but gone now huh?? From what it sounded like in the book...Prien only had about four hundred feet to get the U 47 through, and even at that he ended up scraping the stern on an anchor line I believe with the bow running partially aground....I would like to visit there some day soon....Where do you live in relation to the Orkneys? RickComment
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Hi Rick,
You can find info
Hi Rick,
You can find info on U 47's entry at this page -
The drawings are reworked from the very good article "Scapa Flow And The U 47" by Dr. Peter Schenk (from the After The Battle magazine, Number 72).
Yes it was a tight squeeze getting in, fighting a strong current and brushing against an anchor cable on the way in. There are no blockships in Kirk Sound now, though there may be some smaller debris remaining on the floor of the sound.
Some remains of the Lycia and Cape Ortegal lie beside barrier 2. The stern and bow sections of the Reginald lie on one side of barrier 3, with parts of the Martis and Empire Seaman on the other side of barrier 3.
The most interesting is barrier 4. The eastern side of barrier 4 has built up with sand. So you can now walk over to the blockships on the sand beach. Twenty years ago there was substantial remains visible but the sand has now built up to an extend which hides most of the blockships on this beach. But only the mast and very top of the superstructure of the Carron, and the derrick of the Pontos, are visible above the sand now. The concrete top and bow of the Collindoc are also visible. Very strange walking over to the blockships in the sand!
I live 250 miles from the Orkneys, close to Glasgow in Scotland. If you ever get a chance to visit Scapa then please look me up.
Cheers,
DougieComment
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That is a great site......thanx....Are
That is a great site......thanx....Are the various sounds all in danger of being silted in then?? I would imagine that with the tidal action the sand deposits are just building up over time......Is the Scapa Pier still used today? I wonder how long it will be before someone finds the wreckage of U 47.....This story would make quite a movie dont you think???Comment
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Hi Rick,
Yes, Scapa Pier is
Hi Rick,
Yes, Scapa Pier is still used today. Oil tankers now and again used Scapa as a base. Shame the Royal Navy don't still use it now.
The Royal Oak is still seeping oil, though quite a lot has been removed in recent years. The wreck is a war grave, of course, so no pleasure diving is allowed. Each year Royal Navy divers replace a new Royal Ensign that is attached to the wreck.
Only barrier 4 has a beach. The other three don't have sand at all. It is quite strange why barrier 4 has so much and on one side.
I'm not hopeful anybody will find the U 47 soon. The boat was lost to unknown causes so nobody knows where to even begin to search. And it is a lot smaller than the Bismarck.
But you are right about a movie. As long as it was along the lines of Das Boot rather than that U 571 crap then a decent movie could be made. So if anyone knows Wolfgang Petersen tell him the Scapa raid would make the basis of a great Hollywood movie.
The sinking has a desperately tragic element, with 833 men and boys being lost. So any film or documentary needs to be respectful of those who perished in those brutally cold waters that night.
Cheers,
DougieComment
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