help chosing my first build

[skip asay]

Jonathan -
I have to agree

Jonathan -
I have to agree with everything that Sam said. I am truly impressed with what you have done. But keep in mind that you are actually a very rare commodity. I'd like to have a nickel for every new guy I've run into in the past 35 years who decides he wants a boat with "everything...missiles, torpedoes, lights, etc." including a super duper, whammer jammer electronic control system.....and then he disappears because he bit off much more than he could chew.

I'm a firm believer in the KISS Principle as well as first you crawl, then you walk, then you run. Some people can get through crawling and walking pretty quickly, some can't. It sure looks like you're doing pretty well in that regard. Keep it up!

Skip Asay

[jdbostrom]

Guys,

I couldn't agree with you

Guys,

I couldn't agree with you more. I suppose I could have phrased my opening sentence a little better. In no means did I mean to put any of you down; I have immense respect for both you and your vast experience. I also recognize the fact that you guys are manufacturers, I am not. I'm sure that you talk to newbies with unrealistic expectations all the time, I don't. My real purpose was just to mention that there are those few out there that enjoy building for the sake of building.

Jonathan

P.S. Mr. Reichart- The spelling/grammar? Chalk one up for the homeschoolers of the world.

[anonymous]

Jonathan,

You inspire me. About our

Jonathan,

You inspire me. About our future when there's young men like you. Keep it up!

Steve

[Guest]

I rest it on the

I rest it on the bottom and let my daughters throw bread to lure in the ducks.

I'm still working on a few reliability issues for mine, but once im confident, im sending my Permit in head to head against some monitor lizards in one of the local lakes. 3ft Permit vs 5ft Lizard, im hoping the speed will be enough of a fear factor to spook the buggers

Dont think there going to be many lizard huggers about.

There is another spot, however i think the water will be too brackish for a good signal, but we've seen juvenile crocks in the water, i think that may be pushing my luck

[drew]

Matt Thor wrote about some

Matt Thor wrote about some first builders experience;

>They then go out and buy that attractive WWII boat and then discover why the recommendations were made in the first place. Most complicated models, like the WWII boats,when purchased by newbies end up in one of 4 places;

So it appears I am not unique wanting to build a WWII boat as my entry to the hobby. Since there is some desire for an easy WWII boat, why isn't one available? Is there something about the shape that makes it more difficult than the more modern semi-circular cross section boats ?

Its very cool that both model builders and manufacturers take the time to help the uninitiated (like me). The forum is a great resource.

Thanx,
Drew

[chuck chesney]

Hi Drew,
I doubt that there

Hi Drew,
I doubt that there is anyone who wants to discourage your dream of building a Gato or similar boat. The problem with them is that they are VERY difficult to get right, particularly if you have no experience with model subs. They have a high aspect ratio hull, which means that the hull is very long and skinny, with not much room inside for the WTC, batteries, gearing for the twin screws, and the various linkages, tubes and such that you will need. After you get the thing built, you then have the problems of getting the center of gravity and center of bouyancy right so that it will trim correctly, dive and surface reliably, and run like you want it to.
.
When guys like Matt Thor and Skip Asay speak, you would be very wise to listen to their advise. They aren't trying to discourage you (nor is anyone else), they are trying to get you off to a good start in a facinating, fun (and unfortunately, expensive) hobby. It is very tempting to want to go for a Ferrari when you are putting around in your go-cart, but not very realisitic. I've been running subs since the 1970's, and think that an Albacore or Permit will give you a much higher degree of satisfaction and probability of success than jumping in with that Ferrari for a first effort. Matt Thor's list of the four most probable endings for a first time model is right on the money.

You will get lots of help here, and everybody wants you to succeed, and thats why we are all saying the same things. Good luck, and give heavy consideration to what the people with many years of experience with dozens of boats are advising.

[safrole]

I think beginners who fail

I think beginners who fail to complete their undertaking may be big dreamers in the first place. These people, with their big dreams and smaller follow-through, are more likely to choose beautiful WWII subs, to "bite off more than they can chew". They fall by the quayside (sorry) and it means the old-timers' advice is absolutely correct on average, but the causal relationship could be backward.

Choose a WWII sub and you are part of a "dreamer demographic" which is less likely to follow through.

Choose a reasonable beginner kit and you demonstrate you are part of a more "sober" demographic and this group has a higher success rate.

Your kit choice doesn't change YOU.

I think you can hard sell a "dreamer" into a more realistic kit and they would still not follow through. As a person who followed through on a WW2 sub for my first kit, I know I would have been less likely to follow through on a nuclear sub. But then again I am a person who usually follows through on things like this.

General advice can be perfectly correct in predicting outcomes, but I think individual personality types make MUCH more difference than the difficulty change from one kit to the next.

[tmsmalley]

I don't think the key

I don't think the key factor is WWII boat, I think it is kit vs complicated / scratchbuild. In fact, the argument may prove the rule. Your first sub was a Robbe U-47 kit and you completed it.

I posit that a kit (any decent kit with decent instructions) would more likely to be finished than a super duper/ loaded with missiles/ torpedoes and a working galley/ scratch build for a first time newbie. Especially one with no RC experience at all - which many of the "Iwannabuilds" seem to be. Or not ...

[safrole]

Yes the Robbe wasn't terribly

Yes the Robbe wasn't terribly difficult, except that I reworked half the guts from the beginning. So I bit off quite a lot, but got it done. The appeal of the model really helped to keep me going.

I just twitch a little when I hear "buy this or that kit because everyone should start easy". I prefer something like "buy your kit because it will draw you enough to complete it". The second statement includes me, where the first turns me off. Your internal drive + your lust for the boat make twice the difference that kit difficulty does, at least for me. But I guess a lot of folks can't judge themselves well, so maybe the rote advice is the best after all.

But let's be honest here, who DOESN'T want a u-boat??? That's why when I hear somebody wants a cheap WW2 sub, I say Robbe immediately. To me, (and this is just me) a nuke sub is about as cool as a sewer pipe. Mildly fun, but not at all what I had in mind when I looked into this hobby. (No offense, nuke-lovers)

[JWLaRue]

I'm definitely with Jason on

I'm definitely with Jason on this one.....

My first boat was anything but a 'complete kit' and required a lot of figuring out on my part. It was the DK Models Type VII kit....kit in this case being the hull, conning tower casting, dive planes/guards and rudder. If memory serves, there may not have even been a basic drawing that came with it.

But it was something that I wanted to do....including drawing and making the photo-etch deck! Sure I could have started with something easier, but it was my choice not to.

BTW: Photos of that first U-boat can be found on my homepage at: http://www.subcommittee.com/SubComm....berID=5

-Jeff

[tabledancer]

I will also line up

I will also line up with Jason Think about it,WE all have SH-2 or 3 in our computors,I would think that a good bit of us were brought up with the U-boats in the movies and books and last but not least we all dream about the glamor of being a U-Boat Kommendant cruising around under the sea looking for the next lone freighter,not the captain of a "sewer pipe" as Jason put it looking to shoot a rocket at some far off city.Thats my story and I`m sticking with it
TD

[slats]

I think that there is

I think that there is a conundrum over what advice we (Subcommittee members) advise beginners of and that is we don’t know what the skill package / patience level etc is of the beginner asking the question.

My previous post recommending the Albacore, and that of others too making similar suggestions was with the intention to NOT to patronise the skills of the beginner or belittle their dream project, but rather recommend something that is tried and tested and probability wise going to be a very good introduction to the hobby. When Skip put this kit together it was with the beginner in mind right from the start. Few kits could make this claim. Further, the reason why I also recommend it is that you get good quality and reliability for a reasonable price not to mention step-by-step instructions. Matt’s on line Permit instructions too are just fantastic and are a good source for other kit construction.

Numerous examples of success can be sited with people doing a great job scratch building their dream project first up. My first scale RC sub was the Ships N Things Permit that featured my own very successful WTC and the lack of details on the kit required a fair degree of scratch building. I even fitted two working torpedo tubes. Not a bad effort, but my skill / patience package prior to RC submarines included 7 years of RC scale ship building and about 4 years Subcommittee membership prior to starting construction. Enough about myself I have, like we all have, seen examples of people with no RC experience building great scale RC subs first up that have proven very reliable. But as others have said that tends to be the exception rather than the rule.

My point is this – I think when beginners come to the board here asking for an opinion of what is good for a beginner, that they get the responses like that we have contributed. That is-
Kits like the Albacore etc are designed for the beginner, but depending on your skills and patience more advanced kits may suit too. Bottom line is I would hate to recommend a kit with a higher degree of skill required and have a potential new member of our hobby stuck and resentful due to lack of skill.

All the best
John

[chuck chesney]

Slats,
Here, Here. Very well said.

Slats,
Here, Here. Very well said.