help chosing my first build

[drew]

I am looking at the RC sub hobby (I have never built one).

I have been looking at subcomittee's and rcgroup's forums, the two 2005 SubCommittee reports I just got in the mail, and wandering the web.

I have a 27ft round pool in the back yard, and that would be the main site for running the sub, so I am looking at ~3ft long sub. I really like the looks of the WWII subs. Static diving also appeals to me.

So I am looking for a ~3ft, WWII era static diving kit. It seems like that doesn't exist.

* ScaleShipyard has a Balao and a Gato shell. It is not a kit so I guess that is a poor choice for a beginner like me.
* Engle and OTW have nice looking WWII kits, but thier choices (6 feet) are too long for me .
* The robbe U-boats are also too long.
* Krick has the U11B kit, which passes my cosmetics and length tests but I guess it is really a dynamic diver.
* Then there is the Revell VIIC conversion route.
->www.modelluboot.de has a kit to add the innards to the Revell model. I haven't seen any reviews or builders comments on it so I don't how good it is. Looks like a bladder ballast system from the picture.
->I have read about people using a WTC from Dave Welch to create a RC out of the Revell. I don't know much about this approach. Do you need to buy the motors, servos, linkages, ballast system, ... seperately and assemble them into the WTC and shell ??

So the Modell-Uboot-Spezialitäten plus Revell appears to be the closest fit to my list of requirements. Anyone have experience with building one of these

Maybe I should just wait and hope the one of the complete kit providers (D+E, subtech) makes a WWII era kit.

Thanx,
Drew

[chips]

The Scale Shipyard units are

The Scale Shipyard units are fiberglass hulls and conning tower, resin dive planes and rudder, some white metal fittings (guns, cleats, anchor, etc), and plans. You have to provide a WTC (Small World Models makes a nice one for this sub); motors, electronics, and radio. I am building the HAMMERHEAD from one of these hulls. Here's a link to the build.

The Krick U11B is a dynamic diver, using speed and slightly oversize dive planes to dive. If you slow down while submerged, it will float to the surface.

Dave Welch's WTC kit is a set of lexan tubes, resin end caps with o-rings, and a CD with instructions and pictures of how to complete the WTC and install it in the model. You will need to provide the motors, electronics, seals, etc. Dave provides a very comprehensixe list on the CD of the parts he used and the suppliers he purchased them from.

You might want to consider the Sub Tech MARLIN kit. While it is a model of a fairly modern (1960's) sub, it does resemble some of the older prre-WWII subs. The MARLIN was designed as an entry level kit, and is a good beginners sub.

[slats]

I know its not WW2,

I know its not WW2, but the Sub Tech Albacore is an excellent beginners kit with great level of inclusions and accuracy. It would be perfect for your pool. Step by step instructions too.
If you do the maths the cost well may come out on top too.
A lot of bang for your buck.
All the best
and welcome to the hobby.
John

[drew]

Thanx Chips,

I appreciate you reviewing

Thanx Chips,

I appreciate you reviewing my conclusions and adding your comments. I guess I didn't read the Scale Shipyards web site closely enough. I am glad they have more parts (and plans) than I thought. I checked out the pictures. Since I have never actually seen an RC sub in person, it helps give me an idea what I would be in for.

Thanx Slats,
I tried to educate myself by reading from the forums and various web sites before just asking Whada I do First ??

rc-submarines.com had some nice getting started suggestions, one of which was to start simple get a complete kit. They warned against the chances of not completing the project by starting with something to challenging. I think you are suggesting one of the same subs they recommended.

But if I am going to spend significant time or money on this, the sub has to look appealing to me. I guess it was watching the WWII sub movies as a kid that has burned the look of those boats in my mind. The flat deck, the deck guns, completely un-streamlined. I think they look cool. I also thing the Citroen 2CV also looks cool, so I llike lumpy angular looks.
The modern subs look kind of like swimming cucumbers to me (I hope I am not offending the people who like them).

It would have been great for me if one of the recommended "first subs to build" was a WWII model. So I just have to decide whether to accept the risk of a more complicated build, or the undesriable looks of an easy to build kit. Luckily hobbies are designed to eat up money and free time. Even if I make a less than perfect decision I will still be successfully removing money from my wallet and chewing up my scarce free time.

************************
No one mentioned anything about the Modell-Uboot Spezialitäten revell conversion kit. The web site says it will be available in a few weeks. So no one has anything to say because it doesn't exist yet ??

Thanx to all,
Drew

[thordesign]

Slats makes excellent points and

Slats makes excellent points and he has been around the hobby for a long time and makes the recommendation for very good reasons. Many a new modeler has come to this site asking the same questions and not liking the answers. They then go out and buy that attractive WWII boat and then discover why the recommendations were made in the first place. Most complicated models, like the WWII boats,when purchased by newbies end up in one of 4 places;1) The garbage, 2) Ebay, 3) Subswap, 4) a shelf in the garage (never to be touched again)

Try one of the swimming cucumbers first to get a grip on how things are done and how they work, then go buy your WWII boat. Your odds of success will be GREATLY increased.

[tabledancer]

Everthing that Matt said is

Everthing that Matt said is so very true,take it from a newbie,but I will finish my boat,no matter what it takes ,
TD

[chuck chesney]

Matt Thor is exactly correct.

Matt Thor is exactly correct. He has forgotten more about model subs than most of us will ever know.

Model subs are among the most complex items in the whole model building hobby, several orders of magnatude tougher than most suface ships. It's sort of like saying "I've never actually seen an R/C airplane, but I want to build a fully functional, turbojet powered model for the first project".
With even the most small and simple first project, like the Thor Permit, SubTech Albacore, or Small World offerings, I promise that you will be very challenged. As long as your going to go through the time, effort, money and angst of building a model sub, you might as well build one with a high probability of working when your finished.

Go with one of the high quality premade kits for a first effort, and don't listen to the wannabes who talk about doing lots of exotic things with ther subs, but have never actually built or owned one.

[thordesign]

Chuck,

I tried to reply to

Chuck,

I tried to reply to the PM you sent me, but I am not allowed to use that function anylonger. Please email me at matt@thordesign.com and lets talk!

[safrole]

Drew, I felt as you

Drew, I felt as you do. I wanted a U-boat or a fleet boat and that's all there was to it, so I built the Robbe U-47 at about 66" long. My pool is 20x40x40 and in the 20ft radii almost all you can do is turn around. So I thought I also wanted to do a Revell conversion, but once I saw how those "little" 3ft subs bob around in the water, that feeling went away. I'm hooked on the way the big subs look in the water. Plus I got bored with my pool pretty quickly.

The most fun part of the hobby for me is NOT building subs; it's playing with my sub and showing it off. I take my Robbe down to the park and there's a bridge over the river about 20ft off the water. I stand on that and I can see straight into the water to my lurking U-boat. I rest it on the bottom and let my daughters throw bread to lure in the ducks. As soon as they get close I open up the ballast tank and punch it. The ducks have a much lower viewing angle on the water, and they dont see it until it's very close. If I can break the surface within 3 or 4 feet, it startles them so badly they'll squawk and fly away. I usually get some boys watching and the whole bridge breaks out laughing. It's hard to have more fun on a Saturday than that. Plus, you almost always meet someone who's intrigued by the sub so you get to tell them all about it.

For me the building of the sub was just a pill to swallow, and I swallowed a bigger one to do a WW2 sub. You're the best judge of yourself, as to what workload you think you'll endure.

[safrole]

Oh and I would encourage

Oh and I would encourage you NOT to buy from Modell-Uboot-Spezialitäten, since I sent Norbert 10 Revell brass decks almost a year ago in exchange for his conversion kit and received nothing, even though the decks were for sale on his site for a time. Maybe if I had sent actual money he would have made good, but what's the difference, really? Abscounding with goods is no less a shame. Beware.

[tmsmalley]

A gentle rejoinder from your

A gentle rejoinder from your resident Fish & Wildlife Department employee -

Harrassment of waterfowl is a violation of Title 50, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 20 "The Migratory Bird Treaty Act". By chasing / scaring ducks, you could earn an expensive ticket from your local conservation officer/game warden. More importantly - it makes RC sub guys look like big bad meanies to the bunnyhugger crowd and gives them one more group to campaign against.

Just something to think about...

[silent runner]

Tim has a very valid

Tim has a very valid point.
Due to a 'minor incident' of ONE R/C boat driver, we lost all use of public waterways for ANY R/C boating activities in our county. The bird lovers have a much stronger voice in public than we do.

[thordesign]

Indeed, we ran into a

Indeed, we ran into a very similar problem. We had a resident flock of wood ducks move in on our little R/C boat pond(electric only, no raceboats allowed). The greenies complained that we were disturbing wildlife even though the city owns the land that the pond is on and it is intended for the use of R/C boaters. It made no difference.

However, the ducks suddenly dissappeared and lots of feathers were found all over in the trees to the north of the site. No one admitted to forcibly removing or eating the animals, but now we have a very bad reputation. We do have our pond back though!

Be careful harrassing wildlife. Tree huggers are everywhere!

[safrole]

Woops! I don't know who

Woops! I don't know who that was typing on my computer, but I'd better go back and edit that post... didn't know Tim was "the man".

I would like to say that no ducks were harmed in the amusing of the children. And by "children" I also include the one at the transmitter.

If I were to get in trouble, I'd have to hand the transmitter to my youngest daughter and say loudly, "That's it, young lady, you're in BIG TROUBLE! You know darn well you're not supposed to be harrassing migratory water fowl. Isn't that right, officer?"

[tmsmalley]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0002EGGSO.01-A39B6LAYBCL5SI._SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
Okay you duck evil-doer -


Okay you duck evil-doer - you're comin' with me!"

Bad duck
Bad duck
Whatcha gonna do,
Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?