USS Nautilus SSN-571 Print 3D print model

[taneal1]

Seeking opinions as to the accuracy of the Nautilus 3D Print Model in the link attached below - especially the shape of the bow underside created by the lower Sonar Array.

Thanks!

Tom

[X Bubblehead]

This is a well-designed model but needs a few improvements to make it even better. This is best printed with resin due to the high detail included.

First, the leading edge of the sail should be vertical, not angled back, like the trailing edge. You'll need to modify, (remove or re-mesh) the front of the support that secures the sail to the hull and change the surrounding decking with the revised sail. This is a pretty major oversight and I've contacted the designer, since most people who print are stuck with what they get. Maybe it will get a revision from him.

A close second, is the masts and antennas are incorrect. Masts and antennas are a huge detail in any submarine display model - especially at this scale (1/72). These need to be re-designed.

The "chin-mount" sonar dome needs to be pulled in toward the centerline on the aft end. Not much, but just a little.

For durability, the bow plane linkages should be stronger than the supplied part, so those need to be re-built w/something stronger. I soldered 3 pieces of brass tubing into an "I" shape to engage the slot on top, and a pin in each bow plane through the small tube on the bottom. The pins were inserted through a 3D-printed hole on the leading bow plane edge and filled with resin, then sanded flush.

The aft messenger buoy is inscribed into the engine room deck part. It should hang over the deck and into the port side of the superstructure, while conforming to the superstructure.

I wasn't a fan of the operating shutter doors, so I re-designed the bow without them, and included torpedo ejection pump port details on both sides.

The hull was mounted on 45 keel blocks, as opposed to "railroad ties" which always look cheesy - especially on the expensive "high-end", "museum-quality" models. The included stand works, but needs to be modified to prevent scratching the paint.

The deck details were close, but I changed them to conform with reference photos and the ship's topside plan.

The MBT flood ports were off a little and needed revising as per ship's plans.

If you're okay with it as-is, knock yourself out. It's a straight-forward build and looks impressive when assembled. The propeller detail is excellent.

CC

[taneal1]

CC, thanks for this detailed reply.

This is best printed with resin due to the high detail included.

The newer high resolution filament printers claim high resolution and almost invisible filament lines. Do you have any experience with these? Can you recommend a specific printer? I'm still 'shopping around'...

First, the leading edge of the sail should be vertical, not angled back, like the trailing edge. You'll need to modify, (remove or re-mesh) the front of the support that secures the sail to the hull and change the surrounding decking with the revised sail.

Were you able to directly modify the purchased STL file? It isn't locked?

This is a pretty major oversight and I've contacted the designer, since most people who print are stuck with what they get. Maybe it will get a revision from him.

I'll contact him and ask if he has revised the STL. If he hasn't, then maybe this additional query will inspire him to fix this.

A close second, is the masts and antennas are incorrect. Masts and antennas are a huge detail in any submarine display model - especially at this scale (1/72). These need to be re-designed.

Agreed. I'll have to take a close look at my photos and drawings for the required corrections.

Did you print this at 1/72 scale? I prefer to keep my models at one scale, so I'm planning on scaling this down to 1/96th. Any caveats?

The hull was mounted on 45 keel blocks, as opposed to "railroad ties" which always look cheesy - especially on the expensive "high-end", "museum-quality" models.

Can you elaborate on the Nautilus models "keel blocks"? I'm familiar with the detachable keel blocks on the Hunley, but not on the construction of the Nautilus keel.

Thanks again,

Tom

[X Bubblehead]

Filament printers are much better than say, five years ago. I cut my teeth on Raise3D Pro 2's which have a massive build volume. FDM printing can't beat resin printing when it comes to details, and this boat has a lot of fine detail designed into it. Good luck with a filament printer printing the bullnose, handrails, and the little handwheels for the operating hatches. Once I tried resin printing, I forgot about filament printing.

I added a lot of extra detail to the mesh and printed mine at 1/72. Obviously, if you print at 1/96, something has to give where details are concerned. I imported the STLs as OBJ files for the general outline and re-built the mesh from scratch with more detail and internal radial supports for greater dimensional accuracy. The old mesh remains in the background as reference only, while I alternate between it and drawings to ensure the highest level of accuracy. Most submarines don't use enough sides for hulls and end up with faceting along with layer lines which requires beaucoup labor to smooth.

Here's a keel block shot for my latest 1/72 hull:

The hollow centerline blocks are also topped with pads to prevent the hull from being scratched and when compressed, look like another layer of old wood. I run two fasteners through the centerline blocks to keep them hidden. This looks a lot more realistic than square railroad tie-looking pieces of wood placed length-wise across the beam. I've seen high-end models where some don't even contact the hull; at $60 to $80 an inch, they need to up their game.



Here's a shot of the drydock at Trident Refit Facility, Bangor, where I used to work, showing the keel block arrangement for a Trident class submarine. Getting the spacing right is critical before the ship floats in or bad things can happen. Cleaning the remaining fish out of the basin was always fun for the Tank Blasters. Lugging heavy equipment up and down the built-in steps when crane support wasn't available was always a work-out!

[tom dougherty]

These photos may help with the masts on Nautilus. This is as Nautilus is now as a museum ship. The version you posted is of the much earlier outfitting around the time of the Polar Transit.

[X Bubblehead]

Just found these old renders showing the sail revisions to better match my references. There were multiple changes to the sail in a short period of time, culminating with a collision that peened over the front/top corner.

[taneal1]

I added a lot of extra detail to the mesh and printed mine at 1/72.

Which software app are you using to acomplish this?

Here's a keel block shot for my latest 1/72 hull:

For some reason I'm not seeing a photo here.

Thanks for the info!

[taneal1]

These photos may help with the masts on Nautilus. This is as Nautilus is now as a museum ship. The version you posted is of the much earlier outfitting around the time of the Polar Transit.

Hello There Tom,

Thanks for the photos. I'll be doing the North Pole transit configuration. Regarding accuracy for the polar transit time period, what do you think of the masts/periscopes, etc. on the 3D printed version that I posted? Also, is the 'cover' for the bow upper sonar array correct for this voyage?

Thanks in advance,

Tom

[X Bubblehead]

I configured my hull for Operation Sunshine. MINSY re-built the top of the sail prior to the ship going to Hawaii to begin its first attempt. The Type-2 scope on the original is closer to being accurate, but the Type-8 is just a round extension. I used a bristle from a nylon brush to simulate the ESM stub antenna on the Type-2. Both periscopes have epoxy faces to simulate optics.

Here are a couple of finished shots.






For software, I use a (paid) app used in the television and movie industry. We needed to up our presentations at work with photo-realistic renders and animations, so I attended the DAVE School at Universal Orlando on the company's dime. Pretty sweet deal with me surrounded by a bunch of smart, highly creative, bed-wetters and thumb-suckers venturing away from home for the first time. They racked up student loans and delivered pizza while I kicked back in my hotel room, swilling beer and doing homework for 12-14 hours a day without any distractions. I learned as almost as much from the students as the instructors.

As an engineer used to standard CAD apps, straight object modeling software is a completely different animal. It's as accurate as CAD, but much easier to create organic and hard surface models and far faster, once you get a few years of experience polygon wrangling.

[taneal1]

What does anyone think of the ELEGOO Saturn 4 Ultra 12K 3D Resin Printer? Given the $524 price marked down to $399 for the Black Friday sale on the manufacturer's site this is less than I expected to pay for a Resin 3D printer.

https://us.elegoo.com/products/saturn-4-ultra-12k-10inch-monochrome-lcd-resin-3d-printer?msclkid=a92605963aea15f402a862d60e86eae2&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search-Product-Saturn-PM-PC-US-202206&utm_term=elegoo+saturn+4+ultra&utm_content=Saturn+4+%26+4+Ultra

BUILD VOLUME:
218.88mm(L)*122.88mm(W)*220mm(H)

Would this print the above 1/72 Nautilus in full scale with this build volume?

[X Bubblehead]

This will handle it, size-wise, but if you have never printed before, I recommend you live in one of the applicable Elegoo forums for a few weeks and read feedback from users. An 8k printer of the same size will print parts nearly indistinguishable from a 12k, so if you can find one cheaper that's well-equipped, consider it. The Saturn 4k Ultra build plate is barely larger than a Mighty 4k. Chitubox Pro is a nice upgrade, even if Elegoo only offers a 90-day license. Pro is well-featured and worth the upgrade price over Chitubox Basic.

Printer companies would have you believe resin printing is little more than unbox, plug-and-play, and the Elegoo ad only pushes this. Your time spent in the forums seeing posts from new users ought to dispel that misconception. When printers are properly set up, it is mostly pour-and-print, but when things don't work out, you want to learn from the misfortune of others, not post a catastrophe and pray for deliverance.

There's a learning curve with tuning the slicer settings to the type of resin, and of course, post-print cleaning with IPA and all that entails.

FDM printing is painless in comparison. It takes a few minutes to remove the part from the build plate and snap off the supports.

Resin cleaning is a daily ritual when printing a model like the Nautilus composed of so many parts; it's going to take days to print. Buy at least 6 bottles of resin for this project. Not everything you print will work out until you gain experience orienting parts for optimal printing, so you can never have too much resin on hand. When I get prints that come out flawlessly, I save the sliced file for next time, rather than set it up from scratch twice.

Ideally, you'll need a well-ventilated space that is climate-controlled. (Like a garage - not a bedroom.) Otherwise, you need some kind of heated enclosure or vat.

Cleanliness: If you spill resin on anything, it has to be cleaned immediately with IPA. You're going to need nitrile (or equivalent) gloves and eye-protection any time you work with liquid resin.

A resin washer and UV curing unit are very useful. Due to the size of these prints, they will be larger units, so again, a dedicated space with workbench is needed. I place Wham Bam mats under any place liquid resin is present to contain spills. Prepare to use a lot of IPA. I cut my IPA usage by 80% by using a spray bottle and foam brushes over soaking parts in an IPA bath. I have a curing unit, but I like leaving printed parts to cure in the sun if they're large. Even with triple-digits here in Phoenix, I get no deformation using ABS-like resin, which I recommend since it isn't as brittle as standard resin.

For the nooks and crannies that inhabit some parts, I use a Phrozen Cure UV Beam. This is a lifesaver for parts like (large) torpedoes where you can run the UV light inside for a complete cure.

Probably the best advice I can offer:

Before you plug your printer in: BUY A SCREEN PROTECTOR!!!

You will read the same horror stories online almost daily in resin printing forums: "My Vat film was punctured and my screen is covered with cured resin. What do I do?"

You install a cheap screen protector up-front or shell out big bucks for a new screen later.

Another helpful tip: Keep a print log. Mine has several hundred prints documented and is full of good lessons I've learned along the way. I record how many hours for each print, since screens have a lifespan and this helps me know where it's at and documents any hardware/firmware/software changes I've made along the way. Very useful.

As far as the Nautilus OEM masts and antennas go, 99.9% of the people who view your model aren't going to know the difference. I build submarines for submariners, and their critiques will be harsh if they spot any inaccuracies, which is why reference research can take as long as the design phase. By the time I finish a hull, it's been up-revved two or three times with pages of Lessons Learned entered in each Build Log, influencing the next build.

[X Bubblehead]

Just to offer a reality check, this is a pretty good summation of what resin printing is about:

J3DTech Guide to Resin 3D Printing

If resin printing was as easy as plug-and-play, there would be a lot more people doing it. The printers continue to get better, but without a good foundation in 3D printing knowledge, a machine will only get you so far.

[taneal1]

Just found these old renders showing the sail revisions to better match my references. There were multiple changes to the sail in a short period of time, culminating with a collision that peened over the front/top corner.

Are these in the "Operation Sunshine" configuration?

Have you considered offering a corrected resin sail replacement? I would of course be interested!

[taneal1]

A resin washer and UV curing unit are very useful.

My present plan is to purchase the new Elegoo Mercury Plus v3.0 at the same time as the Saturn 4 Ultra. Unless you can recommend something better that's not to much more dollars.

I get no deformation using ABS-like resin, which I recommend since it isn't as brittle as standard resin.

Got it.

For the nooks and crannies that inhabit some parts, I use a Phrozen Cure UV Beam. This is a lifesaver for parts like (large) torpedoes where you can run the UV light inside for a complete cure.

So the curing station doesn't reach inside the Print, or the (handheld?) UV does a better job?

Before you plug your printer in: BUY A SCREEN PROTECTOR!!!

As soon as I find one that I'm certain will fit the Saturn I'll get one.

Another helpful tip: Keep a print log.

That occurred to me as soon as I started looking into Resin printing. No sense making the same error multiple times when once will do.

Thanks for the tips!

[X Bubblehead]

The hand-held Cure Beam is one of my most-reached for tools while building hulls and other printed things. I typically flow a resin bead on all hull joints and cure them manually until they reach the correct height for sanding. I'll build the seams up in 1-2" lengths. I hit them with the wand and move to the next section. Doing that in a cure station would be a mess.

When I bond a transducer or other part with CA, I still flow a bead around the part with capillary action using a needle, for a flawless joint. The Cure Beam excels at small detail work.

I often install threaded inserts soldered to a brass plate and put a pair in fore and aft pockets to run fasteners through the base to support the hull. I fill the pockets with resin and slowly build it up to encapsulate the fastener/plate. I couldn't do this without a Cure Beam.

UV Cure stations are pretty good for many things, but not thick models where the inside doesn't get optimal exposure to the light. Having a manual method of UV curing ensures access and a well-cured surface.

Another tip based on what I saw in the Elegoo kit: Toss the plastic scraper away. You'll want a high-quality, metal scraper to get under the edges and gradually slide it under the raft to separate the model from the build plate. To check your vat sheet for destructive debris, use a silicon spatula. It has far less chance of scratching the vat sheet than the hard, plastic vat scrapers supplied with most printers. If cured debris gets pressed down into the vat sheet, it can puncture it, and may damage the screen surface beneath. Silicon spatulas are cheap insurance.

Buy lots of paper towels for resin clean-up of your workspace and microfiber cloths for cleaning the bottom of the vat (never paper towels!) Resin is made to be highly viscous, so it will flow everywhere it can.

You may experience heavier-than-normal losses of vat sheets in the beginning. Buy three spares. Note in your logs what caused the sheet punctures or deformations.

Here's a MK-48 I delivered last week for one of our STEM school volunteers. It has round, stacked magnets fore and aft that correspond to a stack in each support block, to enable it to be removed and passed around. (I oversized the control surfaces for younger student handling.) The magnets were bonded in place with resin using the UV wand. A cure station would not have worked in this case.