My first Sub obtained today. Is going to be a bit of a slow burn....

[MrJoshua]

Hi all, I just joined today, and might be being completely stupid but couldn't see particularly a newbie section or intro topic so thought I'd give a bit of info.

I've been into RC in pretty much all shapes & forms since being a kid (am mid 40s now), but never owned a sub until today (despite wanting one for years).

A friend of mine posted up a pic on FB of one that he's had gathering dust for a few years as he hasn't had time to renovate it, and then sold it to me for a mere tenner.
I didn't know what it was, but it is big, and was £10, so that's all I needed as I'm a sucker for a bargain (or money pit project in reality).

Anyway, after some googling, and some rudimentary maths, it's a type XXI uboat model and measures approx 64 inches long.
By my reckoning, based on wikipedia's stated length for those boats of just under 77m, this would make it a 1/48 scale model (I think....).

Clearly it's been built as a finished sub at some point, but somewhere along the line had loads of its guts cruelly torn out, bundles of wires chopped through, and is in a pretty horrible state now, with tons of missing/damaged parts.
Still, it's a sub, and it's mine.
I have a fairly decent workshop with some machine tools etc, so it'll be interesting to see what parts I can fabricate myself on the lathe etc, and what parts I'll have to bite the bullet and spend horrible amounts on, but either way it's going to take a lot of progress to get this back on the water (assuming it once was).

Pics to follow later this evening (i.e. when I can smuggle it into the garage without the mrs seeing it)!

Not sure who manufactured this anyway. I found one or two likely references online earlier but have forgotten already so an evening of research awaits.
What I need to begin with is cleaning it and identifying everything still in it, and then try to create a huge list of everything it needs. So before I can do that, I need to properly understand the workings of it and figure it out from there, hopefully with input from you guys on where (ideally in the UK) I can get parts etc.

At the moment it primarily seems to have 2 main central compartments - one which is clearly for radio gear & motors etc, then one with the remains of some plumbing, which I assume was ballast related.

Hopefully once I put up some pics later someone can give some pointers on how it would have been set up before someone trashed it.

Looking forward to finding out more anyway.

Jim

[MrJoshua]

Now some pics....

As you can see, it's in a pretty unhealthy state. If I didn't know better (and I don't), I'd think that the 'detailing' on the top side has been drawn on with a sharpie!!
Any delicate protruding parts are gone. The rearmost/lowest part of the hull is broken off (the thin piece that extends beneath the rudder - easy to reproduce though), it has one prop/shaft.
The bow planes are absent as are any delicate bits from the sail/conning tower.

There is a single motor but it turns a shaft that goes forward to the ballasty type area. I presume it would have been used as a pump to move the ballast in & out one way or another.














First job is to now strip it all down, and clean all the parts up so I can see better what parts I have got, and what parts (probably a longer list) are missing.

Would any of you folk happen to know from these questionable pics the following points?

1) Based on the length (64") and appearance who the manufacturer of this model was (it's a glass model from the look of it)? I think maybe Precisionpattern but I don't know what other ones there are/were. Robbe maybe?
2) If it's possible to get suitable parts to rebuild this 'off the shelf' as it were, i.e. parts specific to subs and/or this model rather than normal RC stuff. I'm talking working hardware and aesthetic parts (periscope/turrets/bow planes/hatch that's missing from the front etc).
3) If there's a document/guide/article that covers a typical build of a boat of this type that I can refer to for ideas

Obviously I'll be doing some searching on here now, and a ton of googling etc, but I'd be really grateful of any useful info about this derelict, to get me pointed in the right direction.

Thanks!

[bob_eissler]

if it is about 62.9" then it might be an earlier version of the hull that precision pattern sells now. If so, it is 1/48th scale. That is about the way they used to build them in the old days. My suggestion is to completely gut it and put in a 4" (about a 102 mm) wtc with modern gear. Think it will save you a lot of frustration over dealing with that mess.

[MrJoshua]

Thanks for the info and the suggestion Bob. WTC being water tight compartment/container or something on those lines I presume?
I just re-measured and it's a whisker over 64" long. Not sure if that rules out the version you mentioned or not? Is there any really clear means of identifying the manufacturer or model variant etc?

I've stripped down and cleaned up those compartments that were in it (after finding they all just lift out). The bit I saw which I thought was the back end of a motor was actually one of three rechargeable cells ("Cyclon" branded) which are roughly D cell size, in the rear compartment.
There was one servo in there with them, and it passes out a rod which goes into the central ballast (presumably from the hoses) area/compartment.
There's obviously some form of plumbing missing from there as it purely has a few short sections of hose/t-piece, and a tyre valve in the compartment lid to the hoses.

I'm not sure how all that would have worked, but the rear section where the motors would be also has a tyre valve in the lid so I'd hazard a guess that the compartments were pressurised with air, which when required is then used to purge a ballast tank (which no longer exists). Or something like that.

Apart from that, all that remains is a ton of hacked wires (with three servo plugs in the front section - 1 for bow plane deploy maybe, 1 for bow plane angle, and a third for.....?), a fuse, and a charging jack for those cells.

This thing is in a pretty bad state but the actual glass structure of the hull and topside is still good, so I'm hopeful I can revert it to a working vessel in time.

I'd love to find out more detailed info on how all the plumbing in this would have worked and what hardware it would have used even though it makes sense as you say to modernise it and replace the remains of its workings.

Time to do lots of searching for info!

[JWLaRue]

Hi Jim,

First....welcome aboard! There are lots of folks here that will be glad to help you in your project. Please feel free to ask as many questions as necessary.

Looking at the photos you posted I can state with good confidence that what you have is not a Precision Pattern / Doug Badgely hull. The glasswork looks too thick and those hulls were/are not made with a hull lip. On the other hand, given the way the upper hull / lower hull go together, the hull lip, plus the cut-out area above the forward dive planes, I'm thinking that this is one the Rocky Mountain Shipyard hulls. This company made hulls back in the 1990's. The style of construction for the watertight compartments was also very common at that time.

-Jeff

[sam reichart]

John Schagane had a Rocky Mountain XXI that I borrowed for a number of months. If he’s around, he could verify the lip on the model. It’s been so many years that I’ve forgotten that detail.
Welcome aboard, by the way!

[JWLaRue]

I went through some back issues of the SCR and found an article by Charlie Johnson that covered part of his RMS Type XXI build. There aren't a lot of photos of the interior, but I'm not seeing a hull lip on his model. It's possible he removed it or (more likely) I remembered the hull lip wrong. I'm still good with the other points I listed as pointing to a RMS hull.

-Jeff

[salmon]

Could it be a Darnell hull?

[MrJoshua]

Hey guys

Thanks very much for the input and suggestions. Much appreciated!
Interesting that there are some types I hadn't heard of, although I had seen reference elsewhere to the RMS brand.

Would there be any other distinguishing features or something that might help confirm it or rule it out as particular brands?
I guess it's probably not that important from the perspective of renovating it, but I just like to know the history of things.

I'm going to be researching into WTCs over the weekend. I see that on thingiverse there are even some end cap models on there so I could 3d print some potentially, or machine one up on the lathe. I need to figure out full layout and what needs to go in it etc first of course.

Do people fit cameras in subs these days for 'fpv', or is that bad form on a scale model?

[David F]

I think Salmon (Tom) is right - it's a Darnell!
(I know because I was given one to refurbish.)
It is quite a rare model because Darnell didn't make many. (I think I give a figure in the build log.)
A build log over here:

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t1092-darnell-type-xx1-graham-s-dad-s-boat-for-refurbishment

I was given the model with all the original Darnell bits but I couldn't get them to work well by today's standards. John Darnell used a pioneering system using a modified oscillating steam engine!
So it is probably best that the one you have has been gutted.
I got good results using my "standard" home made WTC using PVC sewer pipe but you will see that in the log.
Have fun!
David

[MrJoshua]

Hi David

Thanks so much, that’s really useful, specially the build log you’ve linked to.

Fascinating also about the steam engine aspect you mentioned too.
Really looking forward to reading through that!

I should be able to fabricate the missing/broken glass bits like the hatch from the front and some bow planes etc.

I might try to print (then resin coat) the turret that’s broken up as it’s polystyrene on mine.

Can’t wait to get stuck in. I’ve got plenty of radio gear/servos/motors etc so I think the main thing which will need some proper thinking will be whatever ballast set up to use. Never realised there were so many different ways that could be done!

Thanks very much!

[JWLaRue]

Good spotting....! You guys are correct, it's more likely a Darnell hull than a RMS hull.

-Jeff

[tommydeen]

That for sure looks like a rocky mtn scale ships unlimited hull. I know sombody that has one in running condition.

[MrJoshua]

I wonder if there's a distinguishing feature of either that would make certain which it is?
Mostly people seem to think it's a Darnell anyway, but I'm new to all this. It probably doesn't really matter as such but I just like to know where I'm starting from as it were.

Have been reading a fair bit in the last couple of evenings, and I'm going to make my own WTC for it. I just haven't decided what kind of ballast system to go with yet.

At this stage I'm keen on the idea of mainly 2 factors for this: 1) keeping complexity to a minimum (as is possible at least) since it means fewer things to go wrong in theory, and 2) trying to have a system that would allow the vessel to surface autonomously if there is a failure of control.
I've no idea currently what direction that points me in as I'm not savvy enough with the various options yet, but more reading to be done to help narrow that down.

In the meantime I emailed the place that now sell the Darnell hulls to ask if they're able to sell a selection of smaller parts such as the bow planes (as mine are awol), gun turret, the little hatch that covers the bow planes, periscope etc.
Hopefully they can get back to me and are able to supply bits like those.

[thor]

The heavy glass work on this boat looks to me to be a Darnell kit.

If the Darnell dealer will not sell you parts, I will sell you parts from the Precision Pattern kit. The Darnell kit is a tad off here & there, but with very little effort you can make these parts fit just fine.