SSN-593 Thresher PUFFS Array

[PaulC]

While visiting the newest additions to the sub section of navsource.org, I learned something new about USS Thresher. Apparently, at the time of her loss she was sporting vertical PUFFS arrays on the ends of her stern planes. These were standard for Sturgeon-class. USS Barb (SSN-596) had them as well -- perhaps as a test after the loss of Thresher.

They can be seen in this image taken during the 1998 survey of the wreck.



I went back to the higher angle image of her stern I was familiar with and low and behold you can just make it out at the bottom. This was taken in 1964.



This is the fun stuff for me. You never know when some new bit of info will pop up. So if you build Thresher circa the time of her loss, don't forget to add them.

[PaulC]

Here is Barb's stern arrangement.

[salmon]

That is a great catch! You should celebrate, that is a cool finding and a detail I am sure will now show up on people's subs!

[JWLaRue]

...I'm visualizing an upcoming SCR article.....

-Jeff

[X Bubblehead]

Sorry, Thresher didn't carry PUFFS. What you're seeing are the slab-sided vertical stabilizers on the side of the stern planes.

The three PUFFS arrays were mounted topside where they could measure the curvature of the sound wave, (by measuring arrival times as the signal reached each array) and determine bearing and range via triangulation. The modern equivalent is the WAA carried on today's SSNs.

I think Tullibee carried PUFFS at one time. . . (mounted topside). Tang class had them too.

CCC

[bharris]

Sorry X bubblehead WRONG!
Actually Thresher did carry PUFFS in the form of the BQG-1 as did several of the 594's in the form of the prototype BQG-1 or the follow on BQG-2.
The Blueback SS 582 also carried BQG-2B. The system had 6 array's, 3 port and 3 starboard on the vert centerline, 2 windows just aft of the dome, 2 midships and 2 in the so called vertical stabilizers. The system everyone generically loosely refers to as PUFFS with the 3 exposed vertical fins covering the arrays was actually the BQG-4.
The older BQG-2 was actually a faster system as far as obtaining a range as you did not have to change course to resolve array ambiguity.
All the 594's had space and weight factored in for the PUFFS system but they all did not have it installed it as it was not that effective in the 594's self noise field and was removed early in their lifetimes.
A picture of Threshers BQG is available in "U.S. Submarines since 1945" by Norman Friedman, a prime source of bum dope on submarine sonar and fire control such as calling GNAU and GNATS a jamming device.
Bob.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

A quick search bring up these subjects of PUFF.
Sorry, I did not find a Thresher image.
I found this statement...."It was also planned for Thresher and Sturgeon-class nuclear submarines, but was not fitted on them except Micropuffs experimentally on Barb and Haddock."

USS Harding SS-568 three topside deck fins


HMAS Onslow with 3 topside deck micro fins with orange protective covers.

[bharris]

Ralph,
A few comments on your post, Wikipedia is not a good source for anything relating to submarine sonar especially older systems.
The statements on permit class not having PUFFS installed is absolutely false with the exception of the statement about micropuffs testing on barb and haddock.
No US sub named "Harding" Methinks Harder
The orange covers on Onslow are not micropuffs, the wavelength of the freq band being covered and the timing of the system required for a range resolution do not fit anything that close together or that small. The micropuffs arrays are located in the superstructure 3 on each side forward, midships and aft. If you look at a picture of the present Canadian boats you will see 3 acoustic windows along the superstructure, these are the BQG-501 (ex micropuffs) array windows. pretty much the same arrangement on the Aussie Oberons. Have attached a pic of Oberon with windows removed.
How do I know this, after 40 years working on this stuff both in the Nav and working with NavSea combat systems and the USN sound lab/NUSC you just learn a few things (facts not internet bum dope) not to mention attending BQG-2/BQG-4 school and Raytheon factory training on Micropuffs. NUFF SAID Paul is correct in his assumption that thresher did in fact have PUFFS installed.



Bob STSCS (SS) USN Ret

[JWLaRue]

Yup!...SS-568 is the USS Harder.....a [i]Tang[/]-class boat. Perhaps "Harding" was a simple keyboard typo.

-Jeff

[X Bubblehead]

Sorry, Bob --I understand your correction.

BQG-4 was what I (meant) was referring to (the generic PUFFS three-housings installed topside). Your average non-bubblehead doesn't know the difference between BQR and BQS, so I should have been more specific in regards to system nomenclature. With 20+ years in the submarine sonar world; I'm pretty familiar with the systems installed on most of the Cold War era boats, including the various line array installations. I worked on a micro-PUFFs system on a boat that pulled into Bangor in the early 90's. The majority of my work was on Q-5/6 with plenty of Manassas factory schools thrown in.

This was a long way from the upside-down SQS-51 we had mounted on the Seawolf's bow. . .

Thanks for the course correction.

CCC

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

bharris, your comments are welcome as they point out incorrect information spread over the net that I came upon.
I thought about editing or deleting my post but then decided to leave it so others might not rely on the same information that I found that turns out to be wrong.

It is nice to have people with first hand information on the forum.
R___

[bharris]

OOOPS! now I did it.
That picture I posted was Upholder not Oberon not a typo-senior moment.
Bob.

[PaulC]

Navsource just added a 41 page pdf file of wreck survey images taken by Trieste in '63-'64. There is a clear shot of both the port (pg. 25) and the starboard stern plane (pg. 26) with the PUFFs vertical stabilizer. Really neat addition for those interested in Thresher.

http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0859368.pdf

[eckloss]

damn near every photo gave me chills

[PaulC]

I agree. It's a fascinating, but very somber, read.