Gato vs Balao bow difference

[sgtmac1]

One of our Canadian friends brought it to my attention at the 2016 Carmel run that there was a distinct difference in the bows of the US fleet boats. I have been trying to find some straight on side views of the Gato and Balao subs to see this difference, apparently the Gato is much more rounded at the cutwater than the Balao/Tench boats were.
Anybody have a source for a direct comparison?
All 3 of my SSY 1/48th boats are rounded which indicates they are Gato hulls and would need modification to be more realistic Balaos.
The Batfish should be a close build to the Tang.
Thanks

[JWLaRue]

Hmmm...I thought that the Gato and Balao boats were the same except for the change in the high tensile steel used as well as an increase in the thickness of the hull plating itself. It was the Tench-class that has the slight change in the 'knuckle' or shape in the lower corner of the bow.......?

-Jeff

[wlambing]

Jeff is correct. Basically the Balaos were "re-engineered" Gatos. Same general shape to the hull for ease in manufacture (no change in process). Some changes to T. Tube shutters, depending on building yard/ plans used. Tench was dramatically different in the bow, but that knuckle was, again, designed in for ease of construction. Have a lovely build, 'cos that don't matter! Unless you're doing a Tench boat.

Bill

[sgtmac1]

Calling Duane Hill...

Here is his Canadian fleet boat and some other subs I have found...

[southern or]

From what I've been finding, the Balao and Tench boats had a lot more holes in the casing and in many cases they were a different shape then the Gato holes. Some yards also moved the anchors from starboard to port. Same thing happened to the forward stairwell. The Balao boats also had the direction of 2 gen sets reversed to save on wiring and the engine room was split like it was on the later Gatos. Balaos also tended to have flooding holes in the stern too.

USS Balao 1944

USS Bowfin


(both photos from Wiki)

[southern or]

Almost forgot, Iron Bottom Sound makes resin conning towers for the Balo and Tench boats, templates for the holes, and 5"/25 deck guns, but I think they're for Revell 1/144 and 1/72 kits. They make GUPPY conversion kits too. Whenever I save enough for the running gear, I'll be converting the Revell 1/72 Gato to a Balao too. Good luck and post pics!

[JWLaRue]

I wouldn't use flood (casing) holes as a distinguishing characteristic between fleetboat types. The number and pattern(s) seem to be all over the place. Each yard did seem to have an as-built pattern (which also changed over time).

While I don't claim to be a fleetboat expert, I recall that EB-built boats had the anchor on the starboard side, while government yards placed the anchor on the port side. (Can someone confirm this?)

-Jeff

[wlambing]

Jeff,

Even the EB- Stbd side rule isn't always applicable!!! There are a few EB built that had the hook installed to port. Not many!! PCU CO's preference. Though most times the CO's would leave the anchor be. Some folks, though, just gotta micro-manage everything they can.

B^)

[JWLaRue]

Thanks, Bill! I always learn something about flatboats from you!

-Jeff

[southern or]

Thanks guys.
Yeah, with all the refits and rearmaments that took place on the boats, it gets hard to tell them apart. USS Gato even got a tower refit at some point. From what I've read though, the orientation change of two of the generators did move the exhaust ports though. The hangup I'm having is what tower goes to what boat and what deck armaments are even correct, but I guess USS Balao SS285, USS Archerfish SS311, and USS Queenfish SS393 were indistinguishable postwar since they played "USS Sea Tiger" in 'Operation Petticoat.' Growing up I thought they were Gatos. At any rate mine WON'T be having an Oerlikon.

Hey Bill, you wouldn't happen to know what boats had the two 5"/25 deck guns would you?

[windsorsub]

Good morning,

Our initial discussion revolved around the model I built of USS Tang (SS-306), and how I modified the hull to resemble USS Argonaut (SS-475), which in turn became HMCS Rainbow. Where both Gato/Balao hulls LOOK the same, Balao's were built with a 7/8" pressure hull (compared to the Gato 9/16") allowing her class to safely dive to a depth to 400+ feet. With the introduction of the Tench class, modifications to the MBT piping required a slight modification to the chin of the sub (or knuckle as Bill stated).

See the enclosed photos of my TANG (Before) and Rainbow (After) conversion.
Dwayne

[sgtmac1]

TANG bow

On your TANG, the bow is more rounded than on your Rainbow. Is this correct for SS-306? And the later conversion of an American fleet boat to the Rainbow resulted in a straighter profile?

Also, your TANG has 20mm fore and aft-is this also correct? I have not been able to find a clear picture of the TANG that shows the aft 20mm and many similar boats had a single 40mm mounted aft.

Thanks a bunch.

[windsorsub]

The "Rounded" bow is typical of the Gato/Balao hull, including Tang. I cut off and reformed the "chin" when she was reconfigured as a Tench boat (Argonaut/Rainbow).
Here is a photo of Tang at Mare Island in 1943, and see my video of Tang here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqu_gkKCNSo




Dwayne

[wlambing]

There were a bunch of "Barge Busters" re-armed in the late war period. One example which I'm toying with as a model is USS Hake (SS-256). She carried two 5"/25's, a twin 20mm fwd, and the single 40mm on the cigarette deck, aft. She also had some interesting mods on her cut-down Gato sail. Been playing with this in 1/72 and may replicate the effort in 1/48. I am getting older......sometimes, bigger is better!

Pretty much, you have to research, research, research!! Jim Christley's book is an excellent resource, as is the Floating Drydock book. Beyond those, NAVSOURCE for pictures of any particular boat is very good. I think Sealion II had two 40s and maybe two 5", Flasher had two 40s, etc. You just have to dig!!

Take care,
B^)

[jim smith]

To my knowledge the USS Largarto (SS 371), a Manitowoc built boat, was the only Balao class boat to have two 5" deck guns. That's how they identified her remains.

Jim