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Anyone with a set of Thor SSN21 Seawolf plans that is willing to sell or loan for enlargement , please contact me.
Seems Thor will not make his plans available without a kit
Jonathan Eno
What you said above is simply hogwash! I offered to email you the complete set of prints. In order to remain profitable, I have had to dramatically streamline my process. If you had the software to read the files, I would have gladly sent them to you. You did not, so I am unable to help you at this time. Unfortunately my time does not allow me to spend 2-3 hours to accomodate your request, which is what it would take me to run downtown and get a copy made, find a mailing tube, and take it to the post office to mail it. Yes, you offered to pay for it, but I cannot charge you enough to cover what that 2-3 hours of my time is worth right now. I am absolutely buried right now and do not have time for this kind of stuff. I am very sorry, but it is the absolute truth. That is why Atomic Subs is handling my line for me. He has complete kits only. If I can help you in a few minutes I am always glad to take time to do so. Sadly, this time was not one of them. You will not find enough information on those prints, anyway, to build the propulsor. They will be worthless to you other than for general, external arrangement.
This is the exact reason why we no longer sell electronics or hardware seperately. I cannot afford to sell them! No one will pay the price for what I need to charge to be profitable on these small items. You cannot make money in this business selling small quantities of $10.00 or less items. All of that will be included with our kits here very shortly, but it will not be available seperately. Sorry, but that is reality in this business right now.
They are in an autocad 2000i format. If you can help me out here I would appreciate it. Mr. Eno has expressed his unhappiness with me, and I would still like to help him out if we can.
Lee Upshaw has all of the Seawolf molds that your boats were. No other molds for that boat exist outside of Lee's shop.
The new SSN21 Seawolf masters were CNC machined by myself and Scribed by none other than Dave Merriman. I did the CAD work and the NC program, appendages and the molds. Please take a look at any of the new Seawolf models and you will see that they are quite different from the model that was sold to you right down to every detail. No models were ever produced by me after the molds were sold to you. If you would like pictures or any other evidence of the new patterns, molds, or plans( which are also differerent) please let me know and I will be most glad to send you whatever information you like to put this issue to rest. Dave and I are working up an article for the SCR on pattern building from the latest effort which began in 2001.
I had passed along to Mr. Eno that the Deep Sea Design plans were not quite accurate in some areas due to the fact that they were done in the absence of hard information long before SSN21 was launched. I was not slandering Greg's work in the least. At the time it was an astounding piece of work! Since then a lot more public information has been released and I am sure Greg will update his plans when he gets around to it. Until then, they are a very good resource from which to start.
Below Mr. Eno has expressed his opinion and made the suggestion that I close my shop down. For the little bit of money that I make in this hobby compared to the mountain of crap I have to put up with from individuals such as Mr. Eno ,I think I will follow his suggestion and Dave Merriman's lead and announce my retirement from the business. The headache of dealing with this kind of moronic bantering is not worth it. I spent almost 2 hours this morning converting the plans to a .bmp file and sent them off to Mr. Eno so he got what he wanted and he still persists in complaining and whining. I will be transferring the possession of the ThorDesign Product line to Atomic Subs for continued production. I can hear the "yeah I told you he would quit" already. Well there is a big difference between quiting and retiring. Oh, well...I can't make everyone happy. This is not a kneejerk reaction to one individual. This has been an extremely trying year in the hobby for us and this has been building for quite some time. I know life is full of nuts and strange people but that will about do it for me. As Mr. Eno says below I have not contributed anything to this hobby anyway, so why bother?
Mr. Thor,
That's quite alright that your will not share . As far as I can see Gregg's plan are fine, As far as what you've done for this hobby,,,well it seems to me that you owe ALL of that to those who have made the masters for your hulls, done the scribing detail on your hulls, and produced your hulls. In
fact your "kits" aren't even kits, just hulls.And no I've not bought one of your products and now never will. And it was you who said that you did not have time to sell individual components. I will not get in a pissing match with someone who has not contributed anything original to this hobby.
Jonathan Eno
You have made me so made, I can hardly think straight! WHO ARE YOU TO CALL MATT TO TASK ON HIS BUSINESS! Why can't you do your own research needed to complete your model. You mention, "sharing" well, that’s right it, its Matt's info to share with whom he wants. You have no idea how busy Matt is building his consulting business. It's not like Matt is at home waiting by the phone to take orders for model submarines. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT SELLING MODEL SUBMARINES CAN SUPPORT A FAMILY OF 5 HERE IN AMERICA? H3LL NO!!!! This is a freaking' hobby...and remember that! Matt has brought together talent to create the model subs for those of you in the hobby! It's no different than a General Contractor building a house, bring all the trades together to complete a project.
So, Jonathan Eno, you now have the privilege of being the "straw that broke the camels back"
I have to date never purchased a product from you. But your
articles, web site and shared information has been a help to me and many others. It is extremely unfortunate that this hobby will now lose another source of product and support.
As in many things in life it always seems that the group
suffers for the ignorace of a few.
What Ron has written above is almost word for word what I would have said except that I would have used 'stupidity' and 'arrogance' instead of 'ignorance.' My other comments for Mr. Eno would only end up getting my posting deleted.
I will concur 100% that Matt has done leaps and bounds for this hobby. His products and services are top notch. When I used to an annoyance on these boards as I got my feet wet in this "HOBBY", Matt helped me out on numerous occasions. It does seem that we get some awfully cranky people on these boards and in this club. We cant take either of these for granted.This is the most organized group I have been a part of. Enjoy the hobby, and the people who are willing to dedicate time so other can too!
My 2.3 cents!
I for one have purchased many kits and things form Matt Thor from my first boat on . I have dealt with Matt and found him to be very honest in his dealings and to go the extra mile for his customers. No matter how much you try in the business world even including the medical profession there are people who are not happy with anything or cannot understand the basics of everday life which makes it hard on the individual trying to make a business run. I understand why Matt wants to retire as I finally got out of the medical field and went into teaching because of all the garbage. Matt has contributed to this hobby in the same ways as other master craftsmen have by making and delveloping fantastic kits for us that are not able to scratch build the boats we want. I do not believe for an instant that Matt refused to offer you the plans. If you do not have the proper software for him to download you the plans, that is not his problem. Find another source without bad mouthing him online. Matt !!!! There is no way you can please everyone no matter how hard you try ... Dr Dave
Here are the emails you and I have exchanged. Please tell me where I have edited them or mis-quoted you, which is pure BS. I do not know what your last one said because I deleted it without opening it. Please feel free to post any messages I may have missed here.
Since when is it your business to write my business plan and tell me what I have to do? Another thing, Greg Sharp is not a competitor. I guess you have not noticed that I USE HIS PLANS IN MOST OF MY KITS!!! Oh, thats right you have not bought anything from me nor do you intend to. As I wrote you earlier, I am glad you have not. As much of a pain in the butt as you have been over these plans I can't imagine what a pain you would be with a kit. Others can go ahead and sell small items. My business and my schedule do not allow me to. How many times do I need to repeat that to you???
Your are not the scapegoat, you were the straw. I am retiring from this business because I get less crap from people that I do $100,000 worth of business than I do from people like you who want a $20.00 item and get overly demanding and whiny and down right boligerant. I own those drawings and they are supplied in my kits only. They are not for you to buy seperately and blow up to make your own boat. What part of that do you not understand??? I am not in the position right now supply you with a hard print. You, sir, are the one modifying things. I never said you would not pay for them. I fully acknowlege that. I said I could not charge you enough for it to make it worth my while. Do you want to pay $300.00 for a set of prints. If I do them singly that is what it would cost you as my time is taken up on other projects. I cannot justify right now spending 3 hours of my time, as I repeated to you earlier to go run and get a copy made, stop by office depot and get a mailing tube, and then run across town to the post office. That is why I had to change my business model. As you so brilliantly pointed out, I should not be in business. So, I guess you are right.
Yes, Jonathan, you are in excellent company! You fit right in with the guy who threatened to cave my face in at a Subron meet this summer If I showed up because he could not read the written instructions or figure out how to follow a link on the internet to instructions with lots of big colorful pictures and really small words.
You are in great company with a man who has threatened to shoot me point blank in a parking lot if I dared show up at the California Regatta because he thinks he owns me since he spent $500.00 with me and again he could not read instructions or follow verbal instructions over the phone after spending litterally dozens of hours with him trying to help him and he went ahead and did what I told him NOT to do. He ruined his kit and expects me to send him a free replacement. This person is a candidate for the darwin award.
You are in great company with the creep from Illinois who keeps calling at 3]matt@thordesign.com[/email]
CC]jeno@hypernet.com[/email]
To]matt@thordesign.com[/email]
Date]http://www.subcommittee.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi[/url])
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Mr Thor,
I did receive your offer to send me plans of your pumpjet. I also
understood that it would do me little if any good due to the lack of detail,
however in the same breath youalso said that Gregg Sharpe's plan were
inaccurate. I took that to mean that your GA plans were more accurate and
therefore I wished to see a set.
If your financial operating margin is so small that you can not afford to
sell indivdual parts, be they plans or replacement parts to your kit
customers, than I suggest that,A) you get out of the business, or B) stop
slandering other people's work when you can not prove your own position.
I purposely send this to you because I don't think the SC site is the
place to solve these problems, but I am willing to air them there if you
wish!
Jonathan Eno
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