Canada: Just one sub at sea until late 2009

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  • u-5075
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 1134

    #1

    Canada: Just one sub at sea until late 2009

    http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/new ... bf76a77050

    Just one sub at sea until late 2009

    Of four British castoffs Canada bought in '98, three can't be deployed
    Mike Blanchfield, The Ottawa Citizen
    Published: Thursday, June 05, 2008
    For the next year and a half, Canada's navy will have only one submarine at sea from its small fleet of four troubled, second-hand Victoria Class boats.

    The damaged HMCS Chicoutimi might not be seaworthy until as late as 2012 -- two years longer than officials said it would take for repairs -- meaning it will have been mothballed for eight years, according to documents recently released under the Access to Information Act.

    Canada's purchase of four used submarines from Britain for nearly $900 million 10 years ago has been dogged by controversy, technical setbacks and one notable tragedy -- the 2004 fire that grounded Chicoutimi after claiming the life of one sailor and injuring eight others.

    A briefing note prepared for Defence Minister Peter MacKay advised playing down the availability of submarines in favour of emphasizing they are "an important strategic asset" to Canada's maritime security.

    "If pressed on submarine availability," the note advises, Mr. MacKay should disclose that the Defence Department "has put in place a maintenance regime that plans for at least one submarine to be available for operations until steady state is achieved in late 2009, after which two or more submarines will usually be operational and available at all times."

    In February, the head of the navy, Vice-Admiral Drew Robertson, told reporters he expected all three submarines other than Chicoutimi to be sailing by late 2009.

    As for the Chicoutimi repairs, the briefing note says that "if pressed" Mr. MacKay should explain "the best way ahead would be to focus on the other three submarines and to repair Chicoutimi as part of that submarine's already scheduled maintenance period in 2010-2012."

    Military officials have said that they expect maintenance to begin on Chicoutimi in 2010.

    The sub caught fire off the coast of Ireland in October 2004 on its maiden voyage from Scotland to Canada. Once started, the repairs could take two years.

    "We have only one submarine for three coasts until the end of 2009," said British Columbia NDP MP Dawn Black, whose office obtained the briefing note. "It just continues this long saga."

    The diesel-powered subs, which were mothballed by the Royal Navy after Britain converted to nuclear submarines, are not able to operate under the Arctic ice.

    A submarine refurbishment program, which could have addressed that issue, has been plagued by delays.

    The 1998 purchase by the then Liberal government has always been controversial, but the Conservatives show no sign of abandoning the submarine program either.

    Late last year, Mr. MacKay ruled out cancelling the submarine program.

    Of the four submarines in the Canadian fleet, only HMCS Corner Brook is believed to be active. It returned to port in Halifax last month after three months at sea.

    Asked yesterday to provide an update on Canada's four subs, a Defence Department spokesman said it could take four days to answer that question.
  • u-5075
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 1134

    #2
    The $$$ realities of owning/maintaining

    The $$$ realities of owning/maintaining submarines.

    http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... hub=Canada

    Submarine repairs costing Canadians millions
    Updated Fri. Jun. 6 2008 10:39 AM ET

    CTV.ca News Staff

    It's been 10 years since Jean Chretien's Liberal government doled out $900 million to the British in return for four used diesel powered submarines -- today only one is operational, the others dry-docked and will cost taxpayers millions in repairs.

    Rob Huebert, associate director at the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies, says the vessels are vital to Canadian sovereignty and in desperate need of maintenance.

    According the Huebert, the fleet's current state of disrepair can be attributed to inactivity. He compares the submarines to a car left outside for years without being driven.

    "They stayed in water way too long," Huebert told Canada AM on Thursday from Calgary.

    Huebert says the British government was intent on selling six submarines to Canada, but the transaction took three years, and in the end only four were bought.

    Former Liberal defense minister, David Collenette, has said the delay was due to fear of political backlash.

    "Chretien had always been a strong supporter of the submarine proposal, but he worried about the timing of an announcement when so many sectors of Canadian society had borne the brunt of deficit cutting," Collenette told the House of Commons defence committee in 2004.

    Eventually, Canada purchased the HMCS Chicoutimi, Corner Brook, Victoria and Windsor -- but they've been plagued with problems.

    On its maiden voyage in 2004, fire aboard the HMCS Chicoutimi killed Lieut. Chris Saunders and injured eight others. It is expected to be out of commission until 2012, two years after its initial re-launch date.

    Only the HMCS Corner Brook is believed to be cruising the ocean, and the Victoria needs $195 million in repairs if it is expected to be on duty in 2009.

    The HMCS Windsor is also undergoing repairs.

    "Submarines are incredibility difficult technologies to run," Huebert said, pointing to Russia's beleaguered fleet and an explosion aboard a U.K. vessel off the coast of Alaska in 2007.

    "Unfortunately, the technology is not only valid, it is necessary," he added. Huebert cites the Asia-Pacific region as an example the "huge growth" in submarine procurement.

    Japan has 14 subs, while China, South Korea and Taiwan are all expanding their fleet.

    Once they are operational, the submarines are some of the best, according to Huebert. Diesel-powered subs are slower than nuclear powered vessels but are also harder to detect under water.

    Huebert says it's difficult to convince Canadians that submarine capabilities are important to the country's sovereignty. In the Arctic, the mere presence of a Canadian sub means other countries must inform our government of their whereabouts.

    "The submarines are very important for underwater surveillance in Canadian waters, particularly in near-ice conditions for our North," he said.

    Comment

    • u-5075
      Junior Member
      • Feb 2003
      • 1134

      #3
      http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolo ... dcb2cbb6ef

      Secondhand subs proving

      http://www.canada.com/victoriatimescolo ... dcb2cbb6ef

      Secondhand subs proving to be costly lemons

      Don Martin, Canwest News Service
      Published: Friday, June 06, 2008
      The 10th is called the tin anniversary. But a full decade after Canada bought four mothballed submarines from Britain to guard our coastlines and protect our sovereignty, a more appropriate symbol might be rust.

      The fire sale-priced Victoria Class submarines have become a shipyard retrofitter's dream, a navy's nightmare and a giant hole in the water that has swallowed oceans of taxpayer dollars since they crossed the pond, supposedly poised for operational duty in 2000.

      That dent on one of the hulls that cost millions to repair was just a pizza-sized omen of much worse to come, including the tragic death of a sailor when a fire broke out aboard HMCS Chicoutimi in the middle of the North Atlantic.

      But now, despite hundreds of millions in unexpected repairs and upgrades, with more to come, on top of the $900-million purchase, Canada boasts only one seaworthy submarine -- which will soon join its three docked siblings for retrofits that could drag on for years to come.
      As documents obtained by Canwest's Mike Blanchfield show, the government is no longer talking about the subs as operational assets, merely characterizing them as security blankets sitting in a dry dock with no promise of patrols in their future.

      That's an infuriating, but realistic, public posture.

      Top navy brass were talking optimistically about having all major problems fixed 18 months ago and pinching themselves at the giddy prospect of deploying three subs at the same time in another year or two.

      But every operational deadline has lapsed, usually by years, and every declaration that major repairs are finished proven foolishly optimistic.

      HMCS Victoria was docked in Esquimalt three years ago for a three-year upgrade.

      That won't be completed for another 18 months with plenty of naval code words suggesting it could take even longer given system "tweaking" isn't scheduled to start until late 2009.

      HMCS Windsor was dry-docked for a take-apart in Halifax in early 2007 and, barring similar problems confounding B.C. crews, is allegedly scheduled for sea trials in late 2009. The fire-plagued HMCS Chicoutimi has been mothballed since the accident and is not expected to be ready to submerge again until 2012, if ever, amid talk it could be cannibalized for parts.

      The one seaworthy sub, HMCS Corner Brook, has seen occasional ocean duty, but it would be a rare drug smuggler or intruder who would be intercepted by this part-time coastal sentinel.

      There was a moment of lucidity during its rookie reign when the Conservative government flirted with the notion of scrubbing the program, blaming the billion-dollar boondoggle on the Liberals and investing navy dollars into something with a reasonable prospect of being part-time seaworthy.

      But now it's full steam ahead into dry docks on both sides of the country for the submarines.

      Even what's billed as the final upgrade to make these leviathans worthy of Canadian marine duty has run into a major snag and seems to represent a sneaky violation of this government's pledge for fair and open competitive tendering.


      Independent MP Bill Casey argues a modest $57-million "oil change" maintenance contract is "misrepresented" because it is attached to "emergent activities" with an estimated value of $1.5-billion, a contract approved without the usual supervisory checks and balances.

      Given that contract is worth twice the purchase price of the subs, due diligence in awarding it is a must and that might rate a retendering, which could add years to the upgrade program. Sigh.

      Even more delays could result from having the landlocked submarines enter the courtroom.

      has launched legal action against the federal government, arguing the company that won the work, the Canadian Submarine Management Group, was involved in drawing up the upgrade contract and should be excluded from bidding for having a conflict of interest.

      While it's mere pennies by contrast, Casey has determined it would cost $1 million per sub to move three of them from their Halifax base to the proposed Esquimalt repair dock.

      The Senate and Liberal and Conservative governments are on record as declaring these four submarines to be a critical part of Canada's sovereignty net and coastal protection package.

      But on the 10th anniversary of their purchase for active duty in 2000, the promise of these underwater guardians ever delivering on their purpose is enough to give taxpayers a sinking feeling.

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