U.S. hands over files on sunken Soviet sub.

[u-5075]

U.S.
hands over files on sunken Soviet sub

http://www.russiatoday.ru/features/news/13858

The U.S. has handed over to Russia files from a Soviet submarine that sank in mysterious circumstances in the Pacific almost four decades ago. The declassified files were presented to the Pacific Fleet Museum in Vladivostok, Russia’s biggest naval base in the Pacific.
The Soviet submarine K-129 was on patrolling duty in 1968 with 98 crew members aboard.
The cause of the sinking has never been determined.

In 1974, as part of a special operation codenamed "Jennifer", the submarine was recovered by the American Glomar Explorer ship, 750 miles from Hawaii. However, the crew's families were not present at their burial.

A U.S. government spokesman said the materials can help the families solve the puzzle over the deaths of their loved ones.

[tom dougherty]

K-129 information

That's an interesting little article. I'm currently working with independent film producer Michael White on a documentary film about the CIA sponsored recovery effort, using the Glomar Explorer. We've managed to uncover a great amount of detail about the operation. The website is at:

http://www.projectjennifer.at/

although the site will be updated in the next few weeks with even more specific information. I hope to do a full "behind the scenes" report in the SCR about this amazing year and a half research effort at a later date, when the film is released.

One thing I can confirm: the wreckage of the K-129 was at latitude 40 degrees, six minutes, longitude 179 degrees 57 minutes. That placed it about 1800 miles from Hawaii, not 750 miles away.

[u-5075]

More stuff from Associated Press...............

U.S.

More stuff from Associated Press...............

U.S. Gives Russia Data on Sunken Sub
By MIKE ECKEL – 18 hours ago

MOSCOW (AP) — U.S. military officials on Monday gave Russia a videotape and other archival materials on the Soviet K-129 submarine, whose sinking in 1968 is one of the lingering mysteries of the Cold War.

At a ceremony in the Far Eastern port of Vladivostok, Russia's Pacific Fleet archive and museum received copies of formerly classified documents, including two ship logs related to the K-129 incident and to U.S. efforts to salvage the sub from the sea floor in the central Pacific.

Also turned over was a videotape of a secret burial at sea for six Soviet sailors whose bodies were recovered when the United States tried to salvage the sub.

"We have a debt to servicemen. If I were to go missing, I would want someone to work — like what I am doing — to communicate to my mother and father what exactly happened with me," Lt. Col. Michael O'Hara said in comments shown on Russia's NTV television.

O'Hara works with the U.S.-Russian Joint Commission on POW/MIAs, which was created 15 years ago to help account for U.S. military personnel who disappeared during the Cold War.

Roger Schumacher, the Washington-based deputy director supporting the commission, said much of the material donated Monday had been handed over previously to Russian defense, government or intelligence experts.

Other items related to the K-129 sinking that were turned over earlier included the sub's bell and a camera apparently used by a sailor on the vessel, he said. U.S. underwater photographs of the sunken sub have not been given to the Russians, despite repeated requests.

It was unclear whether the ceremony would help assuage the persistent suspicions that Russian naval officials and relatives have had about the fate of the K-129 — a Golf-II class, diesel-electric submarine armed with nuclear missiles that had 98 seamen aboard when it sank in 16,000 feet of water northwest of the Hawaiian island of Oahu on March 11, 1968.

Russian officials long have suspected that the K-129 was struck by an American submarine, the USS Swordfish. But the U.S. Navy says the vessel suffered a catastrophic internal explosion.

Retired Capt. 1st Rank Pavel Dementiev said the sub's captain, Vladimir Kobzar, and his commanding officer, Rear Adm. Viktor A. Dygalo, were both experienced and talented naval officers.

"There is just one version — that (K-129) collided with an American submarine," he said in televised comments.

Russian doubts about the U.S. explanation re-emerged in 2000 with the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk. Many military officials suspected the Kursk collided with an American or British submarine. U.S. and British officials denied the allegations, but U.S. officials acknowledged that two U.S. submarines were close enough to record the sound of enormous explosions aboard the Kursk.

Russian suspicions about the Swordfish were based on records indicating it underwent nighttime repair of a bent periscope at Yokosuka, Japan, on March 17 — six days after the K-129 sank — and Moscow has requested the Swordfish's deck logs to trace its movements. The Pentagon has explained the repairs in Japan by saying the vessel had collided with an ice pack and was 2,000 miles away from the Soviet sub when it sank.

Russian officials also say he U.S. salvage operations in 1968 and 1974 removed sensitive equipment — possibly including nuclear warheads. In the 1974 efforts, the CIA-financed Glomar Explorer salvage ship tried raising the sub, but it broke apart and only some sections were recovered.

Schumacher said excerpts from the deck logs of the Swordfish and the USS Halibut, a nuclear submarine that was in the area at the time of the sinking, were turned over to Russian officials in 1995.

U.S. officials had earlier provided the burial at sea videotape for the six crew members whose remains were recovered in 1974. The videotape, parts of which were broadcast by Russian TV on Monday, had reportedly been shown to relatives of crew members at an earlier date.

Also turned over to Russian officials Monday was a list of nine U.S. reconnaissance aircraft lost and believed shot down by Soviet forces in and near the Russian Far East between 1951 and 1956, Schumacher said. U.S. officials hope Russia will help provide details as to the whereabouts of the crashes and the fate of the 77 crew members.

[robert f.]

John Craven's book includes a

John Craven's book includes a fascinating chapter on this sub and a possible cause for its sinking. For those undoubtedly few who have not read this book, his theory is that it was a rogue sub which was trying to launch its nuclear missiles while on the surface, when a built-in safeguard against unauthorized launching caused an explosion, sinking the submarine. He presents some very persuasive arguments for this theory. He also states that it was NOT a Golf class sub and its pennant number was NOT K-129..... A case of disinformation tactics perhaps?

If I remember correctly, the videotape of the reburial at sea ceremony of the salvaged Soviet sailors' remains had already been presented at an earlier moment, to the Soviet government by President Nixon during his official visit.

What I would really like to see are those allegedly 22,000 photographs taken of the wreckage! It's probably not without a reason that these have not been declassified yet...


Rob Landsbergen
SC # 1832

[tom dougherty]

John Craven's book includes a

John Craven's book includes a fascinating chapter on this sub and a possible cause for its sinking. For those undoubtedly few who have not read this book, his theory is that it was a rogue sub which was trying to launch its nuclear missiles while on the surface, when a built-in safeguard against unauthorized launching caused an explosion, sinking the submarine. He presents some very persuasive arguments for this theory.

Rob Landsbergen
SC # 1832

The problem with Craven's theory is that the K-129 was (by his own figures) some 1800 miles from Hawaii (at 179 57 Long by 40 06 lat). The range is far short of the R21 missile at 755 nm. Much more likely is an explosion caused by the fact that the R-21 rocket and D-4 launch system were virtually new, and the rocket used hydrazine and fuming red nitric acid as fuels. Both fuels are highly corrosive and neither of those mix well with water.

He also states that it was NOT a Golf class sub and its pennant number was NOT K-129..... A case of disinformation tactics perhaps?

Nope it was a most definitely a Golf, but the sail had no pennant number on it. If it did, I believe the number would have been 722, which is the squadron number, not the hull number (as in US subs).

If I remember correctly, the videotape of the reburial at sea ceremony of the salvaged Soviet sailors' remains had already been presented at an earlier moment, to the Soviet government by President Nixon during his official visit.

Nixon resigned in the middle of the Glomar Explorer's mission, before she returned from the wreck site. The Capture Vehicle (CV) lifted the recovered wreckage into the moonpool on Aug. 10. The tape of the burial was presented to the Russians in 1993 by Ambassador Malcolm Toon, along with the recovered ship's bell. Three of the bodies were identfied with names (V. Kostyushko, V. Lokhov, and V. Nosachev); the others remained unidentified.

[invisibledeterrent]

Talking about the 22,000 photos

Talking about the 22,000 photos taken on this op, I had the opportunity to speak with a former CIA agent who was on this mission although I didn't know it enitially. He actually didn't say much about it. He offered the reading of Blind Mans Bluff. He also mentioned the fact that they really didn't like Tom Clancy. Something about having too accurate information for his books. I asked if the CIA got what they wanted from this mission. He simply said, "It was well worth the time and effort that we invested." I think they got more then they'll ever admit to.

[tom dougherty]

I think they got more

I think they got more then they'll ever admit to.

The only section recovered was the 38 foot bow section. This was reported in the 1978 book "A Matter of Risk", and has been confirmed during our current research for the planned documentary. A second attempt was aborted when the LA Times blew the cover on the project before the 1975 attempt.

[mark]

Where is the bell kept

Where is the bell kept on the Golf Class Submarine?
I thought it was kept in the Sail of a submarine

[Guest]

A book specifically on this

A book specifically on this is "Red Star Rogue." It claims to have some pretty credible evidence of an elite KGB team being added to the crew at the last minute, ostensibly to take over the sub and fire its missiles at Hawaii, thus precipitating a superpower conflict. Its a good read, although I'm not sure I believe every point raised. Much of it supposition and analysis, so in the end you have to take it with a grain of salt. However, its pretty chilling, if true.

[tom dougherty]

Where is the bell kept

Where is the bell kept on the Golf Class Submarine?
I thought it was kept in the Sail of a submarine

The bell was mounted at the rear of the sail cockpit. However, it was brought inside and stored in a locker prior to diving, to keep it from making noise while underway submerged.

A book specifically on this is "Red Star Rogue." It claims to have some pretty credible evidence of an elite KGB team being added to the crew at the last minute, ostensibly to take over the sub and fire its missiles at Hawaii, thus precipitating a superpower conflict.

From the research on the documentary above, it seems that "Red Star Rogue" is largely a work of fiction. In his own book, Craven suggested that the submarine might have been rogue, but he placed the wreck site at roughly 40 lat by 180 long. In fact, as mentioned above, it is at 179, 57' and 40,06'. The wreck (as suggested by others such as Burleson) was not intact, and the recovery equipment and Glomar Explorer were designed and sized to recover exactly one specific piece of the wreckage. The recovery technology was operating at the "bleeding edge" for 1974, and difficulties arose. The "claw" did not slam into the ocean bottom, as described in some accounts. The reasons for the claw failure were more complex. Also, the claw was designed to make exactly one round trip down and back to 16,400 feet deep. The word "claw" actually doesn't do justice to the amazing and complex machine used in the wreck recovery. More later as the documentary gets closer to completion.