Sure to give you heartburn... - Hartford Courant article on the Sub Forc

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  • anonymous
    • Sep 2025

    #1

    Sure to give you heartburn... - Hartford Courant article on the Sub Forc

    Submarines' Role Being Reduced To Fit In With New, Leaner Military

    By JESSE HAMILTON

    Courant Staff Writer May 22, 2005

    Nobody hunts for Red October any more.

    U.S. submarines that for decades have silently ruled the world's oceans
    have slipped quietly out of favor. Hollywood depictions of their Cold War
    exploits are more historical footnote than current-affair documentary.

    And in the steady decline of the U.S. submarine fleet, specifically the
    nuclear-powered fast-attack subs designed to hunt other vessels, nothing
    is sacred - certainly not the Naval Submarine Base in Groton.

    The proposal to close the country's first sub base - where 90 years of
    undersea service have encompassed two world wars, the birth of
    nuclear-powered subs and shadowy missions against the Soviets - has
    provoked probing questions] capability and
    the surveillance capabilities the submarine forces bring to bear."

    "This is what tomorrow is about for the U.S. Navy - the ability to
    project credible combat power to the far corners of the earth," giving
    the president options "around the world and around the clock," a Navy
    scribe reported Clark as saying.

    Sub supporters point to a number of military studies and reports
    justifying an even larger fleet in the future, including a 1999 study
    released by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff saying 76
    fast-attacks would be needed by 2025 to work critical peacetime
    missions.

    They refer to the fact that naval commanders who request submarine
    support are routinely turned down. They talk about the growth in sales of
    advanced diesel subs around the world, including fleets belonging to the
    remaining two members of President Bush's Axis of Evil: Iran and North
    Korea.

    Russia is still in the sub game, too, with Akula-class boats that rival
    U.S. advancements. And China's fleet gets bigger and more advanced every
    year.

    But opponents say the U.S. sub fleet is bloated and expensive. A 2002
    report from the Congressional Budget Office said each of the latest
    submarines costs about $2.7 million for every day it conducts active
    operations, an average of 35.7 days a year.

    Christopher Hellman, a defense analyst at the Center for Arms Control
    and Non-Proliferation, is no fan of the Virginia class subs, which he
    said have run up a price tag that is "beyond stunning."


    There's more, but that is all I can post for now without heaving....
    Tom
  • seadragon021
    Junior Member
    • Feb 2005
    • 7

    #2
    Has anyone noticed that none

    Has anyone noticed that none of our potential adversarys seem to have "defense analysts", or anyone else for that matter, telling their respective governments that they are spending too much money on weapons systems like submarines?

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    • robert
      Junior Member
      • May 2005
      • 83

      #3
      I'm ignorant of course, but

      I'm ignorant of course, but it would seem to me that the number of adversaries against which a nuclear sub is useful is rather limited. Basically, China. Of course it used to be, basically the USSR so it's still 1]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_smile.gif[/img]

      Speaking of my ignorance, just what is the current state of the art with respect to China and missile/attack subs? As in, do they have missile subs?

      Comment

      • anonymous

        #4
        Agree with you Seadragon; this

        [color=#000000]Agree with you Seadragon; this country seems to be overrun with analysts and consultants who all believe that they can divine the situation far better than those who have expertise & background in the area. Just like the '60's and the McNamara whiz kids all over again.....

        Robert-The Chinese had a first generation SSBN in the Xia class. As far as Halibut and the DSRVs in the 1960's, they were involved deeply in military matters, not research. With regard to the situation overall, here is another excerpt from the article]

        Comment

        • robert
          Junior Member
          • May 2005
          • 83

          #5
          Tom, regarding Halibut and the

          Tom, regarding Halibut and the DSRV and Sealab, that's why I put 'non military' in quotes. The cover stories for two out of the 3 was that they were for civilian research. I included Halibut, perhaps wrongly, because it helped carry on the facade by carrying a diver lockout chamber disguised as a DSRV.

          You make many good points, but the one that sticks with me the most is the use of smaller, more easily available, diesel subs. A few of those floating around in the wrong hands would be very bad news, since we likely couldn't as easily follow them with attack subs the way we followed big boomers.

          Comment

          • anonymous

            #6
            Robert- Many friendly, foreign countries

            Robert- Many friendly, foreign countries with diesel submarines have exercised against US forces. Many friendly, foreign diesel boat skippers have very nice periscope photos of nearby US carrier battle groups (a fact not widely advertised by the US Navy). In fact, in a shooting war, I beileve that a diesel boat could rather handily sneak up on a US carrier and cause grief. The fact is, running on batteries or AIP, diesel boats are much quieter than nuclear submarines.

            There is a very disturbing report on US Naval capabilities that is circulating on the web (posted the link below) which addresses many aspects of US Naval strategy. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, but some of it will make you squirm.
            Tom
            Is the US Navy overrated? Roger Thompson

            Comment

            • robert
              Junior Member
              • May 2005
              • 83

              #7
              I'm reading through it now.

              I'm reading through it now. It's quite interesting. I sidetracked myself though. After reading about the 1992 Nova documentary, Submarine!, I've been looking for it and can't find it for sale new or used anywhere. In fact I can't even find it mentioned on the Nova site. The only mention of it at all is on a side about the guy who produced it. Anyone know where I could get a copy, DVD or tape, US format?

              Comment

              • fx models
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2003
                • 166

                #8
                As usual, the Hartford Koran...

                As usual, the Hartford Koran... got it wrong. It seems that these reporters have habitually ignored world developments when they write these wonderfully humanistic, 'cant we all just get along' tomes in their papers. LUCKILY, most readers know to take it with a grain of salt.
                I work in the submarine industry as many of you know. I know TWO things that I will state as factual information that no one has to take MY word on actually. ] is that the theater of operations is shifting from Cold War N. Atlantic to the Pacific and Chinese theater of influence. In the scheme, Groton is too far from Chinese waters although a number of the boats can transit the pole and reach the Pacific quickly.

                So that is my take on the article written by the ever uneducated reporters at the Hartford Koran.

                Comment

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