[update] Sub hit unchartered Mountain at - 30 knots

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  • novagator
    SubCommittee Member
    • Aug 2003
    • 820

    #1

    [update] Sub hit unchartered Mountain at - 30 knots

    Admiral's e-mail says nuclear submarine impact was "incredibly hard"
    By Sun news services
    January 11, 2005

    The nuclear submarine that ran aground Saturday in the South Pacific hit so "incredibly hard" that about 60 of its 137 crew members were injured and the sailor who died was thrown 20 feet by the impact, according to a New York Times story quoting a Navy admiral.

    Messages sent by Rear Adm. Paul F. Sullivan, a former Trident submarine commander at Bangor who now commands submarine forces in the Pacific, said USS San Francisco's hull was severely damaged after the head-on crash into what Navy officials believe was an undersea mountain that was not on the navigation charts.


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    One message said USS San Francisco was traveling at high speed, and the impact practically stopped it in its tracks and caused flooding in parts of the bow, according to the New York Times.

    The messages by Rear Adm. Sullivan paint a more dire picture of the accident, which occurred 360 miles southeast of Guam, than had previously been disclosed. They also hint at the extensive efforts to steady the vessel and save the sailor who died.

    One of the admiral's e-mails indicated that the Navy had tried to evacuate the fatally injured man, Machinist Mate 2nd Class Joseph A. Ashley, within hours after he had been thrown forward and hit his head on a metal pump, which knocked him unconscious.

    Petty Officer Ashley's father, Daniel L. Ashley, said in an interview he had been told that as a helicopter hovered over the choppy seas, crew members could not maneuver a stretcher carrying his son through the submarine's hatches before he died, according to the New York Times.

    "They tried numerous times to maneuver him through various hatches," Mr. Ashley said. "But it just didn't happen."

    Adm. Sullivan, who is based in Hawaii, sent the e-mail messages to other Navy officials. As the messages circulated within the submarine community, two people provided copies to The New York Times, and Navy officials confirmed their authenticity.

    The e-mail also indicated that about 60 crew members had been injured. All the Navy had said publicly was that 23 crew members were treated for broken bones, cuts and bruises.

    The messages said those 23 were hurt seriously enough that they were unable to stand their watch duties as the submarine limped back to Guam. Mr. Ashley said the submarine's captain, Cmdr. Kevin Mooney, told him by phone on Monday that among the injured crew members, "there were a lot of broken fingers, broken arms and legs and one fractured back."

    Navy officials said yesterday that the rest of the injuries were minor.

    The admiral's e-mail also said an outer hull ripped open at the submarine's nose, causing flooding in a dome with sonar sensors and in four of the ballast tanks used to submerge the vessel or take it to the surface.

    The flooding caused the submarine to sit deeper in the water and made it hard to maneuver on the trip back to Guam. Sailors had to keep pumping pressurized air into the tanks to prevent the water from rising and to maintain buoyancy, the New York Times reported.

    An inner hull, which surrounds the crew's living and work spaces, held firm, the e-mail said. The nuclear reactor and critical propulsion systems were not damaged.

    In the e-mail, Adm. Sullivan did not discuss why the vessel ran aground. The Navy is investigating, and the admiral, who ultimately will have to decide whether to reprimand any of the submarine's crew members, did not respond to requests for comment.

    Navy officials have said that the submarine, which was headed for Australia, appeared to have smashed into an undersea mountain that was not on its charts. Mr. Ashley, who lives in Akron, Ohio, said Cmdr. Mooney told him the same thing on Monday.

    "He said, 'On the charts we have, this is a clear area all the way through to Australia,' " Mr. Ashley told the New York Times.

    Navy officials said the San Francisco was traveling at 30 knots when it careened off some part of the undersea mountain range. In one of the e-mail messages, Rear Adm. Sullivan wrote that on impact, the vessel made a "nearly instantaneous deacceleration" to about 4 knots.

    Mr. Ashley said Commander Mooney told him that his son had just gotten off watch duty in the engine area and was chatting with other sailors when the accident occurred.

    Mr. Ashley said his son, who was 24, "loved the Navy and that submarine" and had just re-enlisted.

    Mr. Ashley said Cmdr. Mooney, who could not be reached for comment, also told him that his son's condition seemed to worsen as sailors labored to tilt the stretcher through the evacuation hatch.

    Mr. Ashley said that at the end of the conversation, Cmdr. Mooney told him that he took full responsibility for the sailor's death. Mr. Ashley said he replied that he had heard all he needed "to know that you and your crew did everything you could do to save my son's life."
    Woah!
  • eckloss
    • Nov 2003
    • 1196

    #2
    ...so if the 'mountain' was

    ...so if the 'mountain' was uncharted, will they place blame on the officers and/or crew, or will they keep their jobs and have it all called an accident? i imagine when one of the navy's big toys gets banged up like this, someone has to take the blame...

    Comment

    • boss subfixer
      Junior Member
      • Aug 2004
      • 656

      #3
      I have two e-mails from

      I have two e-mails from work that I am going to forward to my home, One with pictures. I will see if I can post them later today.

      Comment

      • novagator
        SubCommittee Member
        • Aug 2003
        • 820

        #4
        I have two e-mails from

        I have two e-mails from work that I am going to forward to my home, One with pictures. I will see if I can post them later today.
        that would be great if you could post them, if not could you email the pics to me?

        johnsrx7@gmail.com

        Comment

        • boss subfixer
          Junior Member
          • Aug 2004
          • 656

          #5
          Here is the e-mail. I

          [color=#000000]Here is the e-mail. I can't atest to the validity.I took out the e-mail addresses and cleaned up the mime format found in e-mails. Other than that the story is untouched.


          Subject]

          Comment

          • boss subfixer
            Junior Member
            • Aug 2004
            • 656

            #6
            Sorry guys I tried to

            Sorry guys I tried to post the pictures but I don't have a place to upload to first. I can send to someone else if they know how to do this. Meanwhile Novagator I sent them to your e-mail.I will post more if it becomes available.
            BSF

            Comment

            • anonymous

              #7
              Here they are...

              http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/SFO-Pierside.jpg

              http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/SFO-Pierside-CloseUp.jpg

              http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/SFO-Sail.jpg

              http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/SFO-UpperRudder.jpg

              Here they are...







              Comment

              • seawolf
                Junior Member
                • Mar 2003
                • 107

                #8
                my condolences and sympathy for

                my condolences and sympathy for the incident.
                regarding the 'uncharted mountain', could it be a 'new mountain' emerged cause by the major earth quaken near Indonesia area?

                Comment

                • ogopogo
                  Junior Member
                  • Oct 2004
                  • 21

                  #9
                  Please excuse my ignorance of

                  Please excuse my ignorance of the technology but, is there not a "forward-looking" sonar that should have alarmed at this unexpected protusion?
                  john

                  Comment

                  • koeze
                    Junior Member
                    • May 2003
                    • 204

                    #10
                    Sonar doesn't see anything.
                    Sonar listenens

                    Sonar doesn't see anything.
                    Sonar listenens to souns emitted by other object at sea and even above water. IYou can also listen to the reflection of a self emitted sound (the ping) as it bounces off other objects. The thing is, the main advantage of a submarine is it's stealth. A submarine doesn't cruise around pinging away because another submarine (enemy) can determine where the sound originates.
                    A submarine tries to be as stealthy (read silent) as possible.
                    Most mountains are pretty quiet so changes are it cannot be heard.

                    EJK

                    Comment

                    • ogopogo
                      Junior Member
                      • Oct 2004
                      • 21

                      #11
                      ok, got that .. does

                      ok, got that .. does it then follow that we either have most or all of the ocean floor mapped or, high-speed stealth cruising is ALWAYS inherently dangerous ?
                      john

                      Comment

                      • novagator
                        SubCommittee Member
                        • Aug 2003
                        • 820

                        #12
                        Thanks for the story and

                        Thanks for the story and pics, I would love to see the pics from dry dock.

                        Comment

                        • mike byers
                          SubCommittee Member
                          • May 2003
                          • 103

                          #13
                          Yea, it's virtually impossible to

                          Yea, it's virtually impossible to hear anything at flank speed.

                          Mike

                          Comment

                          • anonymous

                            #14
                            I hope the Skipper does

                            I hope the Skipper does not lose his job over this incident. These curcumstances are different not having what has turned out to be incomplete nav. charts. The saving of his ship performed by him and his crew was in the finest traditions and skills of the silent service. If I was in the service..I would sail with that skipper anytime. Heres one more image....Steve





                            Edited By Dolphin on 1105909988

                            Comment

                            • ron
                              Junior Member
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 71

                              #15
                              I have yet to see

                              I have yet to see any further updates in the press on this. A question does copme to mind though. I thought ships like this had sophisticated sonar. What happened? I do not mean this in a negative light, but its hard to understand running at that speed and not being pretty sure of your surroundings as well
                              as having a manned watch. Maybe someone with actual experience on these boats can clarify.

                              Ron

                              Comment

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