LF: GUPPY Sail Cockpit details

[ssn705]

Anyone happen to have drawings or pictures of the cockpit arrangements for any variation of the GUPPY sails?

Thanks,

Dave

[oldsubs]

There are few published drawings of the interior of the bridge of post-war US submarine conversions. That being said the interior is easy to understand and reconstruct for model builders. The conversion from the wartime unfaired shears and bridge to the step sail consists of the following. For Balao Class remove the bridge access trunk and associated decking. Build a fairing that extends up from the main deck just where the fairing was that enclosed the old bridge access trunk to the level of the old bridge front. That fairing encloses the entire front and around to the sides and as far back as the end of the main induction. The top of the step is at a level as the old bridge front. The inside of the front of the fairing encloses a space where the OOD and lookouts could take shelter if necessary. This space had windows (called deadlights) around its front and a door down to the main deck on one side of the sail. The items on the bridge (TBT, indicators, intercommunications etc) remained where they were although they may be repositioned somewhat. The exact location of all except the TBT will vary from boat to boat. There was a quarter-spherical thick plastic 'bubble' which could be raised (pivoted) to provide some wind/spray protection to the bridge. This would be lowered when the boat was to operate submerged. Tench and Gato classes followed similar conversions. Thus, to find details of the 'cockpit' look at peoples models of a WWII bridge and enclose it in a faring that matched the external form of a step sail. See some of the Booklets of General Plans at the Historic Naval Ships Association website. This should provide a good running start.

[oldsubs]

If you do Facebook go to the SubCommittee group. There is a set of fine photos of a model being done of the interior of the bridge of a diesel boat. Well done with excellent details. The same objects were in generally the same place on a Guppy/Fleet Snorkel's bridge. The latter had the step sail fairing wrapped around the WWII boat's bridge.

[oldsubs]

If you are looking for primary source material it is in the National Archives, Record Group 19 on microfilm. Full plans which give much detail of the sail/bridge of a Guppy/Fleet Snorkel.

[tom dougherty]

Dave,
Do any of these images help out? I don't have any shots in the actual cockpit interior, as it is inaccessible. These may help.

[oldsubs]

The photos are great Tom. The deadlights are for an EB boat, rectangular are for a Portsmouth boat. The front of the sail wraps around the position of the front of the non converted lower fairwater. Inside the door is a platform deck where a person could stand and look out the deadlights. The little space is called the doghouse. It is where the phone talker (if stationed) would be in inclement weather when entering or leaving port. If the weather is nice, he would try to sit on the area just aft of the bridge opening. There would be two steps up to the deck inside the bridge. The bubble is shown well. There is no TBT binoculars and it would appear the compass repeater (polaris) is over toward the port side of the bridge. The position of these things as well as other fittings, switches, indicators and such would vary slightly from boat to boat. It is interesting to note the combination riveted and welding going on for the sail skin. There is a challenge for a model builder! The tube running up the port side of the sail is, if memory serves, for the floating wire antenna. I see what appears to be a wire in the upper front of the doghouse. This may be for the magnesyn compass. If so the actual compass would be mounted above the deadlights in the front of the doghouse

[tom dougherty]

Jim, That is Becuna in Philadelphia. Those photos are from 2008; my Nikon DSLR is much better than the older camera I used then.
She was originally built in the old Victory Yard at EB. The Guppy conversion is indeed the EB version. Also the Portsmouth Guppy sail, as you well know has a different trailing edge in addition to the different shaped deadlights..

My 1/350 resin model of same at one point in her Guppy career. It's a hybrid of a Yankee Modelwroks hull and a Tom's Modelworks sail with additions that I scratch built.

[oldsubs]

Wow! You do beautiful work. Thanks for showing us the model.

[ssn705]

Tom and oldsubs,
. Thanks to both. While the pics aren't exactly what I was looking for, they are great reference. I have managed to misplace some great high angle shots of CLAMAGORE and REQUIN that were looking down from almost overhead (hopefully they weren't permanently lost with a dead tablet a few years back). I have to comb through more storage spots. Fingers crossed.

The descriptions certainly help to understand some of the deltas.

Dave

[tom dougherty]

Dave,
Best shot I have of the late, great Guppy III Clamagore's cockpit. Not enough to see inside the cockpit. Hope you can resurrect your photos from your old tablet or from a backup.

[scott t]

You might do an image search on uss cavalla ss-244. Or visit it down in Galveston Texas. Or Torsk 423.

[oldsubs]

The bridge on a Guppy III or any other configuration which in final form used the high 'northern' fiberglass sail did not have the configuration I described above. My description was for 'step' sails only as I understood from you question to be the issue. The Guppy IIA's, Fleet Snorkels and Guppy III sail reconfigurations involved removing the entire early bridge structure, extending the upper access trunk up one full level with changes to the hatches, restructuring the bridge peloris, indicators and intercommunication devices and rearranging the sail's internal decks. Unless someone comes up with photos of a Guppy III bridge or you can access the plans that exist at the National Archives you may have to write to individual boat websites with the hope that they might have someone with internal pictures.

[oldsubs]

All 'step sail' bridges were and are as I earlier described.

[ssn705]

Thanks to all for the info and pics. I need to get to some of the surviving boats... Have yet to get to any boat with a step sail.

Dave

[wlambing]

Dave,
Years ago I passed a copy of the USS Becuna SS-319 Basic Submarine School textbook to Pat Habler (ex-NR-1 crew) to help the USS Cod Museum understand and work on her hydraulic system. They may have some info from that tome. IIRC, USS Requin in Pittsburgh and USS Razorback in Little Rock both have step sails and may be able to help with some pictures. The National Association of Historic Ships may be a good place to go for their website info. I used to have them in my work 'puter, but then I retired. Some of those sites have picture tours through their ships.

Good luck in your research!

Bill