Emergency Surfacing System

[roger s]

RC sub emergency system

Having read some ideas on sub safety, this is what I came up with, after nearly loosing my perry submersible. The down side is: you have to experiment to meet your requirments, (time required for system to release) but it's worth it, because the system works very well.

Paint some paper gum glue on to some plastic sheet, with out air bubbles if you can! When the glue has curred, remove the membrane from the plastic sheet, try not to touch the membrane with your fingers; grease from your fingers will stop it working.
Cut out some square section of double sided sticky tape, the size controlls the time, for example: how long it takes for the drop weight to relese. Clean the membrane with alchol, then place the sticky pads to the membrane
Once one side of the membrane is coved, turn it over and repeat the process, making shure that the sticky pads are oposite one another.
next; cut all the pads out, but leaving one mm around all the edges. If one cuts to the edge, the system may fail.

Removing the protective layer from the pads, stick thes between the sub and a drop weight. In my case, the drop weight releases after two hours.
naturally, drop weights are no good, when the model is stuck in weeds, this is what happened with me, but threre is a back-up. The back-up being a bouy, which is made from yellow styrene. Wrapped around this small styrene drum, is 40 feet of fine fishing line; the bouy is released after four hours.
It is recommended, not to make the bouy too large, you do not want poeple walking past, knowing what is on the end.

Finally, fit a small L.E.D light, then you can see, where the model is at night.
From Roger Suitters

[Jason126]

Was contemplating this whole topic myself, I've been researching different ballast systems and I was wondering if it would work to build a custom coupler for a standard CO2 cartrige like is used in air pistols. Since life vests use those same cartriges and they all have some sort of automatic activation I thought that must be useful for application on subs. Turns out they seem to use dissolving papers or salt blocks as a hold back for the spring loaded firing pin.

When I stop and think about it I'm not really sure what purpose that setup could serve. I guess I had thought if there was ever flooding inside the electronics compartment it could activate and blow the water out of the electronics area and or the balast tank. My point is I would want to develop some kind of emergency system that is completely independent of the subs systems.

A trigger mechanism in terms of depth sensing could be something like a pressure plate film that blows at a calibrated depth, similar to how mythbusters uses those pressure discs that blow at a calibrated atmospheric pressure spike. Could be a film in combination with a dissolving element, the dissolving part would never contact water until the film broke. Just my thoughts, that's a major concern of mine getting into this hobby, risk mitigation. I want to enjoy cruising on the lake without puckering up every time I send her down.

[apa-228]

You are over complicating the situation. There are commercially available systems that operate when RC signal is lost and will trigger a gas blow valve that is servo operated to bring the sub to the surface. There are also depth control switches that will activate the ballast systems if a predetermined depth is exceeded.

[David F]

Full details of the latest ultrasonic and hence directional incarnation of the Pinger:

http://www.theassociationofmodelsubmariners.com/t1644-pinger-2-ultrasonic?highlight=pinger

No longer manufactured (People don't seem to be very interested in buying equipment that can save their sub!) but very easy to build using an Arduino and a commercial bat detector.

I never venture down to the pond without one!

David F

[salmon]

Jason,
I am not sure if you mentioned if you have built a working sub yet or not. I will proceed as you have not.
As someone who has lost a sub, i can attest to wishing I had a pinger. While thinking of ways to recover your sub, there is the aspect of seeing what others have done first. Many times when someone new gets into this hobby, they begin thinking of all the things they want in their sub. Working torpedoes, raising and lowering periscopes, lights, and so forth. Those are all great things, but not for your first sub. Why? Too often I see someone start a sub, but get frustrated and shelve the build (guilty). There is enough frustration and challenge in building your first sub not to mention getting it balanced and running. If you joined our organization, then you have access to decades of great minds who have pondered and built subs in our Subcommittee Reports.

As far as using CO2, there is a reason CO2 is not used that much anymore. It is extremely high pressure and a alternative that was available (originally Freon) was found to be safer. Propel gas is a much lower psi and readily available too.

The electronics we use have safety built in, but you want something independent and your in great company many people have done that.

We can all agree there are many ways to approach this topic and many ways to solve one issue. Your float can be released as easy as using a spaghetti noodle as your timer or fancy more complicated ways (more complicated means more maintenance and possibly more ways to fail), but I have seen electromagnet release discussed to a tick-tac candy, but at the pond side I do not see it live. If you can attend a fun run (not sure we’re you live) you can see what others use. Keep in mind, your solution will depend on the sub you are building, how much room you have, and your technical abilities (both mental and tactile), but none of it is important until you try it and have a working proof in a sub. The beauty of our hobby is you can try to come up with something new or try to improve what is already being used. I will see four Moebius or Revell Skipjack subs and all are different inside. Each one showing a personality of the builder.

The pucker factor will be there no matter what you have built into your sub. At least until you have run the sub enough to know it’s quarks and abilities (no, maybe it is always there just different degrees of pucker). Running in strange waters is a factor too! Heck even known waters can be tricky.

Something that was drilled into my head when I re-entered the hobby after being frustrated in the ‘80s on a sub I tried to build is the phrase "crawl, walk, run". If you have never built a sub, I would recommend get through the crawl phase - build your first sub. Keep it simple, learn the basic skills of packing all of your electronics into an area you need to keep dry, getting control of your dive planes and rudder, trim the sub and get it running. It does not mean you cannot be one of those that has the talent to do the running skill level, you know your technical abilities and desires.

The last point I would like to make. Is when you do start your build post it here. Why? There is a ton of wisdom in this group and as you build and run into frustrations others can encourage you and guide you along. The other reason to post is to help the next person coming along that wants to build what you are doing. It may inspire someone to take that step and say “I can do it!”

When I re-entered this hobby, I made sure I did not do it in a vacuum. I posted my success and failures, we learn from both. Through this I have built some great friendships and have some wonderful subs!

Sorry for being long winded, could not sleep.

Welcome aboard Jason!

[Ralpharch]

enjoyed the read. I need to follow this as my son's Permit has a habit of sinking and if I am ever going to venture into backyard storm water drainage with his boat need a sinking recovery plan.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

If your boat keeps sinking, it would be best to first find why it does that.
No matter how much emergency air you have, if the cylinder fills, there will not be enough volume of air to lift it from the bottom.
------------------
Obsolete option.
Many years ago, A float would be built in to the deck that was held in place by a servo.
Just a rod through an eye on each side that would be activated by lost signal. (set at about 5 minutes from loss of signal)
This float would look like the rear hatch and the under side would have a volume of air and a spool of 10 pound fishing line. (about 30' to 50')

When a boat was lost, the Tx would be turned off and the timer would start.
When the servo was activated, the float would come to the surfaces and the fishing line could be used to lift the boat to the surface or followed down by diver.

I have not seen a float used in 15 or more years.

[JWLaRue]

We're working with Mike and Ralph to determine the source of the leak. We have scheduled some time this Saturday to do a root cause analysis. As I said to Mike: whatever it is, it's fixable.

-Jeff

[Jason126]

Jason,
I am not sure if you mentioned if you have built a working sub yet or not. I will proceed as you have not.
As someone who has lost a sub, i can attest to wishing I had a pinger. While thinking of ways to recover your sub, there is the aspect of seeing what others have done first. Many times when someone new gets into this hobby, they begin thinking of all the things they want in their sub. Working torpedoes, raising and lowering periscopes, lights, and so forth. Those are all great things, but not for your first sub. Why? Too often I see someone start a sub, but get frustrated and shelve the build (guilty). There is enough frustration and challenge in building your first sub not to mention getting it balanced and running. If you joined our organization, then you have access to decades of great minds who have pondered and built subs in our Subcommittee Reports.

As far as using CO2, there is a reason CO2 is not used that much anymore. It is extremely high pressure and a alternative that was available (originally Freon) was found to be safer. Propel gas is a much lower psi and readily available too.

The electronics we use have safety built in, but you want something independent and your in great company many people have done that.

We can all agree there are many ways to approach this topic and many ways to solve one issue. Your float can be released as easy as using a spaghetti noodle as your timer or fancy more complicated ways (more complicated means more maintenance and possibly more ways to fail), but I have seen electromagnet release discussed to a tick-tac candy, but at the pond side I do not see it live. If you can attend a fun run (not sure we’re you live) you can see what others use. Keep in mind, your solution will depend on the sub you are building, how much room you have, and your technical abilities (both mental and tactile), but none of it is important until you try it and have a working proof in a sub. The beauty of our hobby is you can try to come up with something new or try to improve what is already being used. I will see four Moebius or Revell Skipjack subs and all are different inside. Each one showing a personality of the builder.

The pucker factor will be there no matter what you have built into your sub. At least until you have run the sub enough to know it’s quarks and abilities (no, maybe it is always there just different degrees of pucker). Running in strange waters is a factor too! Heck even known waters can be tricky.

Something that was drilled into my head when I re-entered the hobby after being frustrated in the ‘80s on a sub I tried to build is the phrase "crawl, walk, run". If you have never built a sub, I would recommend get through the crawl phase - build your first sub. Keep it simple, learn the basic skills of packing all of your electronics into an area you need to keep dry, getting control of your dive planes and rudder, trim the sub and get it running. It does not mean you cannot be one of those that has the talent to do the running skill level, you know your technical abilities and desires.

The last point I would like to make. Is when you do start your build post it here. Why? There is a ton of wisdom in this group and as you build and run into frustrations others can encourage you and guide you along. The other reason to post is to help the next person coming along that wants to build what you are doing. It may inspire someone to take that step and say “I can do it!”

When I re-entered this hobby, I made sure I did not do it in a vacuum. I posted my success and failures, we learn from both. Through this I have built some great friendships and have some wonderful subs!

Sorry for being long winded, could not sleep.

Welcome aboard Jason!

Thanks for the advice, I do tend to over-complicate things. After changing my mind a few times I finally settled on the Kilo 1/72 scale kit from Nautilus Drydocks. It appears I can also buy their ready-built WTC. Have yet to order the sub but I will definitely post a new thread once I start building. I will need lots of advice!

For now I may play around with this rupture disc idea, looks like Oseco made the ones for Mythbusters. Also I found this patent which mentions using graphite film for very low pressure rupture discs: https://patents.google.com/patent/US5002085A/en I may pursue this just for the fun of it. Who knows it may turn into something.

I am very interested in finding other submariners nearby, I live in Columbia, South Carolina.