Information on U-997.

[mylo]

Hey all,

From what little history I'm able to discover on U-997 and it's only commander, I'm finding it quite interesting and would like my VIIc/41 to model this boat.

Does anybody know how U-997 was painted ? Two tone grey, if so, which grey on the upper portion (darker or lighter, ...forget the German names, Dunkelgrau or something....sorry, not near the historian that others here are.) ? Camo ? If so, how ? Dougie, any chance you can help me out here as you seem to be the one in the know in terms of U-Boat paint schemes, I'll take your best guess. How about emblems, markings, or other things that made U-Boats unique ? I'm not able to find what I need on Uboat.net, not much on this particular boat.


Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mylo

[JWLaRue]

Hi Mylo,

I'll be able to

Hi Mylo,

I'll be able to assist once I get back home (from traveling).

-stay tuned,

Jeff

[mylo]

Jeff,

That would be great.

Jeff,

That would be great. I appreciate all the research help you've given me on my project.

Mylo

[dougie995]

Hi Mylo,

I'l leave Jeff to

Hi Mylo,

I'l leave Jeff to answer your query. He knows U-boat colours extremely well. But I thought I'd post these colour images of U 997 as I have them on hard disk. The image below was taken on the 30th July 1944 at Hammersfest. U 997 is the last boat on the right hand side (the darker one).



This next image shows what looks like a 37mm on U 997. This was taken in bright sunshine around the same time in Narvik.



Cheers,

Dougie

[mylo]

dougie,

That helps a lot.

dougie,

That helps a lot. The thing I was wondering that would be of most significance was if U-997 had a cammo paint scheme. Clearly from that photo, it does not.

What is your best guess as to the greys ? It's hard to tell if in that photo U-997 is in some sort of shadow from the boat next to it, but it does appear to have a darker upper colour. It looks as though it is the same colour as the first boat, the one on the far left. The two in the middle look as though they have an almost white upper colour.....some sort of winter/arctic cammo maybe ?

I can not make out what that emblem is on the tower ? Ideas ?

Mylo

[warpatroller]

Mylo,

The boat on the far

Mylo,

The boat on the far right on Dougie's pic is probably medium gray on the upper hull and sail, with dark gray below the waterline.

The middle two boats have light gray on the upper hull, dark grey below the waterline. The upper half of the sail on the boat next to U997, very well may be white though. Light grey looks almost white in many photographs from the war. In the mid 30's, some Type IIs were entirely painted white! Boats based in Norway sometimes had white sails too.

There is a website that has a large collection of Uboat emblems. When I remember the name of the site.....I will post it, as it may have artwork for U997's emblem or emblems.

Steve

[mylo]

Steve,

Yeah, I really need

Steve,

Yeah, I really need U-997's emblem.

Thanks for the tips on the colours. I was thinking much the same thing, particularly how white that light grey looks in WWII era photos of these boats.

Mylo

[dougie995]

Hi Mylo,

U 997 is depicted

Hi Mylo,

U 997 is depicted on the Revell 72nd VIIC/41 box art. See below -



The website with the emblems is http://www.uboataces.com/. Very useful site and U 997 is there.

The colours and design on the Revell model are likely taken from Georg Hoegel's emblems book. The book says "blue clothing, red bicycle, yellow light and steel-blue torpedo." I can't make out this emblem on the photo I posted on U 997. There is something there but I can't make it out and it looks smaller than the Revell model?

The book also says "Our boat's emblem was the 'Red Racer' - named after the boat's bicycle which - lashed fast below the upper deck - accompanied us from our training voyages to Hammersfest."

So there is an amusing anecdote to go with the emblem!

The camo pattern on the Revell model. Hmm. I've asked a few people about this. Maybe Revell has seen a photo of this boat in archives that the rest of us haven't. The boat may well have had a camo pattern at some stage. But the squiggly lines over the light grey is something I've not seen on any U-boats. Has anyone seen this? I have seen this on a number of Luftwaffe aircraft, though...

Cheers,

Dougie

[warpatroller]

Dougie is correct!

I don't have

Dougie is correct!

I don't have the Revell VIIC/41 so completely forgot that the model depicted on the box cover is U997! I do have the Revell VIIC and that one is U552 with the upper hull and sail in light grey, which that boat had throughout the duration of the war. Although, the way they have the emblems (the double emblems, leaping devils and snorting bull) on the boat, that would be as the boat appeared later in the war, and it would NOT have the upper net cutter in place, and probably not the lower cutter either. With the cutters in place it should just have the leaping devils only, leaving the snorting bull off.

The site I was referring to is indeed uboataces.com!

http://www.uboataces.com/ref-insignia68.shtml

You can see the Bicycle rider carrying the torpedeo, as shown on the Revell model.

I agree with Dougie on the squiggly camo lines on the Revell model, I don't recall seeing them on a Uboat before either.. And yes, that is something that definately was used on some Luftwaffe airplanes and even on tanks too.

Steve

[JWLaRue]

Mylo,

...okay, back from my trip.....

The

Mylo,

...okay, back from my trip.....

The logo that Dougie and Steve posted appears to be the correct emblem for the U-997. This according to Georg Högel's book. I've provided a photo of the emblem from the book here:



One of the boat's crew described the logo as]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_smile.gif[/img]

-Jeff

[essayonsǃ]

My late two cents worth...
I

My late two cents worth...
I agree with Jeff. The sub, if depicting her with a schnorkel, would most likely have the darker greys for the paint job. By this time the main threat to the Uboats were aircraft, and it was their opinion that dark grey was better at concealing than a lighter grey. I have yet to see many photos depicting the Norway area subs with splinter/dazzle/disruptive cammo paterns late in the war. Check around for Uboat surrender photos. All that I've run across use the dark greys, no splinter. I believe by 1944 this generally ended with the adoption for the dark greys.
Dougie47's photo showing the 997 at Hammerfest raises some questions. She didn't recieve the schnorkel until March 1945, so either it's the wrong captioned Uboat or the right Uboat but later.
I would like to see Revell's photographic reference on their box art for the 997. Again, the depiction of that camo pattern with the schnorkel(late war) bothers me...