Do you really need to install an automatic pich controller?

[redboat219]

how come i see some subs performing flawlessly even without the aid of an APC?

[Guest]

How fast were they going?

Andy

How fast were they going?

Andy

[redboat219]

In general I was pertaining

In general I was pertaining to Steve Neil's and Dr. Art's subs.

[Rogue Sub]

Thats a good question sub

Thats a good question sub culture. How does a boats speed affect pitch of the boat. I have also seen boat without pitch controllers just as good as boats with them. But they appeared to be much more hands off driving.

[himszy]

Redboat,

For the average boat (read

Redboat,

For the average boat (read - just about all) You don't need a pitch controller. It just saves you from the hassle of fiddling with the stick every few seconds to stay under. However if you have a fast boat such as BD's Sushi then you won't be able to make the corrections fast enough when the boat's at top speed.

Nuke Power,

The faster you go, then the more pitch corrections you have to make and so the greater the need for a pitch controller.

Michael

[Guest]

pitch controller

Redboat,
Actually, my nukes do have a pitch controller installed. I remember having difficulty working all the controls manually when I first built my Alfa, so I installed an APC. On my L.A. I also have a depth controller. The Flying Sub runs without an APC or ADC, and is quite stable. All of those are static divers with RCABS.

[redboat219]

Re: pitch controller

Redboat,
Actually, my nukes do have a pitch controller installed. I remember having difficulty working all the controls manually when I first built my Alfa, so I installed an APC. On my L.A. I also have a depth controller. The Flying Sub runs without an APC or ADC, and is quite stable. All of those are static divers with RCABS.

Hi Dr. Art,
So that means you were applying corrections all the while your Alfa was running in the Woods Hole video.

Red

[Guest]

need automatic pitch controller?

Redboat,
Yes. In that video I used manual control of bow planes to bring the boat to the desired depth (no ADC), and rudder control to try to keep in the center of the 4 ft width of the test tank. I also filmed one run at extremely slow speed. All runs were with the APC in operation, connected to the stern planes.

[skip asay]

Himszy wrote -
"For the average

Himszy wrote -
"For the average boat (read - just about all) You don't need a pitch controller."

Sorry, Michael, but this is one of those times that shows your lack of experience. The reality is exactly the opposite of your statement. For an explanation, go to Norbert Bruggen's site, click on "elektonics", then "Pitch Controller" and read "Each model submarine that runs faster than a snail needs a pitch controller." (If you can't read German, you'll need a good translator.)

redboat219 wrote -
"how come i see some subs performing flawlessly even without the aid of an APC?"

I'll be willing to bet that your description of "performing flawlessly" differs greatly from mine. In well over 30 years, I've watched literally thousands of boats operate and I can count on the fingers of one hand (with some left over) those boats which did not have some form of leveling control which I would consider to have performed well (but not flawlessly). I've seen a great number of boats that dived at a 45 degree angle, and immediately surfaced, again at a 45 degree angle, and watched their skippers jumping with joy exclaiming how well they worked. And watching a boat move forward and backward a few feet also doesn't constitute "performing flawlessly".

To me, a boat must look just like the real thing. Slight bow down angle until periscope depth is achieved and then run like that (with just the tip of the periscope out of the water) for MANY YARDS, not just a few inches.

But then, that's just my opinion.

Skip Asay

[chuck chesney]

I have been running subs

I have been running subs for many years, and have to agree with Skip Asay one hundred percent. An APC is worth it's weight in gold.
When "The Masters" like Skip and Dr. Art Broder speak, it's good to pay close attention to what they say...they are the guys who INVENTED the systems and techniques that make this a viable hobby.

[anonymous]

I use them on all

I use them on all my larger boats and even some of the small plastic conversions. The rest I drive on the trim tabs. Once I get a good level trim at speed they will hold even pretty good. Like my old Dumas Akula. Much like trimming and RC aircraft.

But the APC really works good and for the small size and low price it is worth it.

Steve

[redboat219]

I use them on all

I use them on all my larger boats and even some of the small plastic conversions. The rest I drive on the trim tabs. Once I get a good level trim at speed they will hold even pretty good. Like my old Dumas Akula. Much like trimming and RC aircraft.

But the APC really works good and for the small size and low price it is worth it.

Steve

Hi Steve,
I always thought that you Kilo, Seawolf and Type VIIc didn't have an APC onboard and that only foam and lead weights keep them on an even trim .

Red

[mike dory]

As Everyone has already told

As Everyone has already told you " Yup, you got to have an APC" In my 4 0 years of building and running model Subs, I've only seen two that ran very well without them. Phil Headley's 1/48 scale fleet boat, built in the 70's and Dan Ketcher 1/32 scale Natalus built, in the mid 80's. Both of these were very well balanced boats built by exception builders and were run at scale like speeds.(AKA slow) I've never been able to achive anything close to this in a turn without an APC. I've had alot of practice with my fleet of boats over the years and if there's is one thing I've learned, don't go running your boat without an APC. In the old days we used an R/C chopper Gyro. You had to clip the port & starbord connections, extend a brass pendulum to increae the sensitive and it had to run on i'ts own separate battery. The Gyro after modication, was about 4.5 to 5.5 inches high and about 2.5 inches high and wide. All in all, it took up a lot space. We should get Skip to tell you all about early boats of the 60's and 70's. Lots of good times... Best Wishes on your projects Mike Dory

[liftmys10]

I use them on all

I use them on all my larger boats and even some of the small plastic conversions. The rest I drive on the trim tabs. Once I get a good level trim at speed they will hold even pretty good. Like my old Dumas Akula. Much like trimming and RC aircraft.

But the APC really works good and for the small size and low price it is worth it.

Steve

Hi Steve,
I always thought that you Kilo, Seawolf and Type VIIc didn't have an APC onboard and that only foam and lead weights keep them on an even trim .

Red

Im willing to bet he used foam and lead weights to even the sub out in the water so when its not moving, it sits even with the water line. (You dont want the nose of the sub sitting deeper than the tail.) Almost all of us probaly used foam or lead weights to balance it out but when moving under water you need an APC to keep it level at the depth you want to keep it.
For my Albacore i had to use lead weights and foam to balance it out but i have been extremely lazy and have not put my APC3 on yet (i've had it for 7+ years now still in the package) and everytime i try to play with my sub im constantly battling with the radio stick. I rarely put my sub in the water though. I like the way it looks more

[doc]

Hmmmmmmm Great reading Guys IM

Hmmmmmmm Great reading Guys IM sorry if i missed something but can a APC run a weight slide system as well or just generally the Planes??? Ill definately be looking at the systems for hopefully future use Doc