Lighting up your sub... (LED how to)

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  • KevinMC
    SubCommittee Member
    • Sep 2005
    • 463

    #1

    Lighting up your sub... (LED how to)

    At various times and in various places I've seen several requests for how to set up LEDs on a sub. Here's the skinny on how they work and how to calculate the required resistor value.

    LEDs have a very low resistance and must be hooked up to a battery through a current limiting resistor. When in an on state, they will drop a fairly constant voltage independant of the current they pass. ('Vf' on a data sheet) For most LEDs (green/yellow/red) this is about 1.2V. (I believe white and blue are up around 3V.) Most LEDs will give good illumination at around 20mA. ('If' on a data sheet) These two figues are approximate but are a good starting point for setting things up. With this understanding we can now calculate the required value for the current limiting resistor with this formula:

    R=(Vbatt - Vf) / I


    And here's an example:

    Subdriver A wants to hook up a single LED to a 12V battery.
    Vbatt = 12V
    Vf = 1.2V
    I = 0.020A [20mA = 0.020A]

    R= (12V-1.2V) / 0.020A
    = 540ohms



    Subdriver B wants to hook up two LEDs to a 6V battery.
    R= (6V-[2x1.2V]) / 0.020A
    = 180ohms



    Some other useful tidbits:

    "I calculated my resistor value, but the LED won't light up. What could be wrong?"
    -Unlike a bulb, LEDs are "one way" devices. Hooking them up backwards generally won't kill them, but they won't light up either. Round LEDs usually have a "flat" spot next to one of the leads- this is typically the lead that ought to be hooked up to the negative lead on your battery. (The shorter lead also often indicates the negative lead.)

    "Can I hook up LEDs in parallel?"
    -Yes, but it's not the best way to do it because they tend to glow with a very uneven brightness when you do. It's better to run them in series.

    "How many LEDs can I string in series?"
    -That depends on your battery voltage. Your battery voltage must be greater than the total Vf for all your LEDs.

    "Can I hook up 10 LEDs to a 12V battery and skip the resistor?"
    -Don't go there!

    "My LEDs are too dim, can I make them brighter?"
    -Yes, to a point. Some LEDs will handle 100mA of current. Some may burn out at 30mA. You'll know for sure what it can take if you can locate a data sheet, but it may be easier to just re-run the calculations for a higher current and try it out again.


    No more excuses guys- time to light up those subs!
    Kevin McLeod - OSCAR II driver
    KMc Designs
  • tmsmalley
    SubCommittee Member
    • Feb 2003
    • 2376

    #2
    Excellent! How about a one

    Excellent! How about a one pager for the SCR, Kev?

    "McLeod - there can be only one human champion..."
    Highlander 1986


    [/url]

    Comment

    • lakesactor
      Junior Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 5

      #3
      next week, parts and labor

      next week, parts and labor for a flasher. poetically called. Dance of the capacitors.

      Comment

      • KevinMC
        SubCommittee Member
        • Sep 2005
        • 463

        #4
        Lakesactor- Or just buy an

        Lakesactor- Or just buy an LED that's got a flasher module built in!

        Tim- Is that "There can be only one" or "Thank goodness there's only one"?

        No problem on a write-up. Do I still coordinate with Jeff on that?
        Kevin McLeod - OSCAR II driver
        KMc Designs

        Comment

        • tmsmalley
          SubCommittee Member
          • Feb 2003
          • 2376

          #5
          That's great kevin - watch

          That's great kevin - watch for Jeff's announcement in the March SCR

          Comment

          • pirate
            Member
            • Oct 2005
            • 849

            #6
            Kevin,
            That would be wonderful for

            Kevin,
            That would be wonderful for you to write this up for the Report. Looking forward to it.

            Pete

            Comment

            • ramius-ii
              Junior Member
              • Apr 2003
              • 393

              #7
              Suggestion

              Hi Kevin,
              Your calculations and constructions tips are great you may wish to recommend a lower current value to others for calculating the resistor value. The reasoning is simple. Most LED's have a I-max of 20 ma. (depending upon their mcd rating). Should one be using a power supply or charger for "bench" operations then in a 12 volt system the voltage will be higher. A charger will produce 13.8 to 14.2 volts otherwise the battery would not charge. The same is true in 6 volt systems. I would like to suggest using 15 ma as the max current at "normal" operation voltage. Again, this is only a suggestion.

              Best, Ed

              Comment

              • cstranc
                Junior Member
                • Mar 2007
                • 158

                #8
                Kevin,
                Thanks for taking the

                Kevin,
                Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I promise to put it to good use.

                One quick question. I have some yellow green diodes that I shall be using for both yellow and green on the same circuit. I understand when you flip the polarity on them you get different colors. They list Vf 2.4V & Vr = 5.0V.

                Is it ok to run diodes with different voltages on the same circuit (they both have the same If 25ma), and would I calculate the resistance as:

                R = (Vbatt - (Vf + Vr)) / I

                Chris

                Comment

                • tmsmalley
                  SubCommittee Member
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 2376

                  #9
                  Kevin -
                  that LED article

                  Kevin -
                  that LED article for the SCR should go to our new editor - Pete Piekarski. As you have heard - Pete is a graphics professional and has some great ideas for the magazine. He has already redesigned the cover with more fun stuff to come!

                  You can send articles (anyone, not just Kevin ) to Pete at editor@subcommittee.com

                  Just a simple word document (don't imbed any photos, no fancy bullet lists or other ofrmattting. Pete and Susan will pretty it up for you!)

                  Send the photos to him at the same address. Then send another message - with nothing attached - telling him what you sent and ask for a reply to make sure it squeezed through the Internet hose in complete form.

                  If necessary - you can send them it a typewritten article and Pete can scan it and turn it into a work of art! Same with photos - if you don't have a digital camera - send photo prints and typewirtten hard copy articles to Pete at:

                  Pete Piekarski
                  6625 Monarch Dr
                  Fort Wayne, IN 46815-7858

                  We are always interested in how-to articles, as well as submarine history, static stuff, book reviews, info on upcoming subron fun runs etc.

                  Don't be a chicken - you know you have something you want to write up - Just do it!

                  Best,
                  Tim

                  Comment

                  • Rogue Sub
                    Junior Member
                    • Jul 2006
                    • 1724

                    #10
                    HeY Kevin
                    Me and my Akula

                    HeY Kevin
                    Me and my Akula wanted to thank you for imparting us with a little knowledge. Never realized it could be that easy!


                    Comment

                    • crazy ivan
                      SubCommittee Member
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 659

                      #11
                      Hey Nuke,

                      You really have that

                      Hey Nuke,

                      You really have that Akula lookin' sharp!
                      sigpic
                      "There are the assassins, the dealers in death. I am the Avenger!" - Captain Nemo

                      -George Protchenko

                      Comment

                      • Rogue Sub
                        Junior Member
                        • Jul 2006
                        • 1724

                        #12
                        Well George,

                        Not that I want

                        Well George,

                        Not that I want you to feel like I am trying to brown nose you but, your boat imspired me and I'm attempting to get mine up to the same level as your. I still have some things to learn about technique but, im getting there quickly Id like to think. Still have mistakes on the boat but it makes a great 5 footer or it looks great at 5 ft away !!

                        Comment

                        • ramius-ii
                          Junior Member
                          • Apr 2003
                          • 393

                          #13
                          Hi Chris

                          I hope no one minds if I answer your question. In the calculation, it is only the value of Vf that is subtracted from the battery voltage divided by the current. Basically, you want to loose all but the 2.5 volts for the LED. That is if you have 12.5 volts, you want to loose 10 volts and still have the .025 amps. As a suggestion, you may wish to do the calculations with .020 amps, just to give you a margin for error and typical spec. are given as Vf (max).

                          Please keep in mind you need to switch BOTH sides of the LED between the voltages. This is easily done by use of a DPDT relay where the LED is connected to the commons and one side of the relay is one voltage, the other side is the second voltage. I am going to guess you have a test meter and if so, you can take a variable resistor of about 1 or 5K (1,000 or 5,000 ohms), connect it in series with the meter set to current and adjust for your current. Remove the pot and measure it's value. Use the next highest common value resistor.

                          Without knowing the voltages you are working with and the intended purpose of the use of two colors, it is difficult to give you a better design and there are other design options.

                          Best, Ed

                          Comment

                          • cstranc
                            Junior Member
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 158

                            #14
                            Nuke,
                            Thanks for the pictures.

                            Nuke,
                            Thanks for the pictures. I was just looking up what navigation lights a submarine would need when you posted your picture: Red, Green and "white all around".

                            Ed,
                            Thanks for the instruction, I think I should be good now. I am doing the same thing as Nuke with red, green and two white diodes.

                            Last time I checked my electronics store did not have white... Only red, green, yellow/amber. Shall have to try again.

                            Thank you for the tip with the variable resistor. It makes a lot of sense.

                            When I was first looking into this I asked the guy at Active Electronics and he told me I needed a programmable voltage regulator and ...... I paniced and ran out of the store. Prototyping with a variable resistor I can handle

                            Chris

                            Comment

                            • ramius-ii
                              Junior Member
                              • Apr 2003
                              • 393

                              #15
                              Hi Chris!

                              You are very welcome. The white LED are available from many places such as Digi-Key (www.digikey.com). The come in two flavors, large and small. For part numbers, there is the CMD333UWC (large aks T-1-3/4 aka 5mm diameter) and the CMD204UWC (small aka T-1 aka 3mm diameter). Or if you tell me which you would like, I can mail you some or both.

                              One trick you can use to disguise your lighting is to take plasitic rod, shape it for the type of light look you wish, mask off where the light is to appear, paint the rod white or silver first (to reflect the light) then the final model color so it will blend in. Crazy glue the led to the rod where you wish and the rest should be great.

                              As for a "programmable" voltage regulator, they are actually very simple. For low current (2.2 amps or less), an LM317 will do. It takes a variable resistor, a 270 ohm resistor, and a 1 uf capacitor. If you need higher current like 5 amps continuous, then the LM338 is the same only more power and the 270 ohm resistor becomes a 120 ohm resistor.

                              Best, Ed

                              Comment

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