Novice R/C Submariner needs advice on kits.

[timc]

Hello all:

I'm getting the R/C Sub bug since I got Revell's 1/72 Gato. I have a huge swimming pool in my side yard (18' 41') and want to either build a LA Class or a SeaWolf (VA) Class boat. My preference is the Seawolf. I've seen a ThorDesign 1/96 Seawolf that looks extremely nice when built by experienced hands. I have experienced hands but not when it comes to R/C Subs. I build models, plastic, static models. I have built and flown R/C airplanes and helicopters and am extremely mechanical. Hell, I even have my own Sherline 4000 lathe (I'm eyein the mill too )

Is the Thor Design Seawolf a decent kit? I have no information on it whatsoever except that others have built it and sung its praises. How much does this kit cost? The webite link for Thordesign does not work (it's only a placeholder at the moment) and Atomic Subs does not list them (at least not that I can find) on their website for sale.

Any and all information on ThorDesign Seawolf and LA class boats appreciated.

Regards,

Tim

[silent runner]

At this time, all Thor

At this time, all Thor hulls are no longer available unless you can find one through a private party.
Pete at SubmarineWorks offers both a Seawolf class and Virginia class hull kit in 1/96 scale.

http://www.geocities.com/submarineworks/

Tim at Barnstormer Boats makes a 1/72 scale LA class hull.

http://www.barnstormerboats.com/

All electronics and WTCs would have to be purchased separately for these boats.

The build on my Virginia class North Carolina can be found here]http://www.subpirates.com/viewtopic.php?t=943[/url]

Mike

[Guest]

Not to put too fine

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that pool will seem awfully small when you come to try and turn one of your chosen subjects- neither are known for their small turning radius'.

If you want a submarine that works really well in a pool, I'd be looking at submersible type craft i.e. Delta, Galathee etc.

Andy

[tmsmalley]

Small World Models USS Blueback

Small World Models USS Blueback and Russian Kilo by Dave Manley are two more high quality full sub kits (not just hulls) that are great in pools and an easy first sub for new guys.





You can find Small World Models contact info on the vendors' page.

[timc]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Thanks for the quick replies. I was wondering about the turning radius of those boats. My pool is 18' x 41' (inground) and 8 1/2 feet at its deepest point. What's the turning radius on a VA Class boat in 1/96? The boat itself is only a little longer than 4' in length. That still leaves almost 14' for it to make the turn. The sub won't turn that tight? That's just awful performance in my inexperienced eye. Like I said, I'm not experienced in the operational characteristics of these sinkin cigars and don't know what is, and what's not, normal performance.

My preference, gained by my limited reading, is to have a static dive sub. I have ruled out dynamic dive subs, mainly because once I put it down, I want it to stay down until I tell it to come up. If I want it to crawl along at a snails pace, 4' undewater, then damnit that's what I want. I don't want it do start at 4' and wind up on the surface cause I"m not making it go fast enough to keep it down.

The jury is still out on ballast systems. I don't know which system is more realistic and/or reliable. Also, judging by what I've read, the water pump ballast system seems better. The "canned air" ballast tank system seems like a last step "blow the tanks" to surface the boat kind of approach. It may be the better of the systems and I think, unless I'm way off, that the sub uses the pump to flood the tank and air to purge it. I just can't picture how fast the air purges the tank. I imagine it rising to the surface very fast once the tank is purged. (kinda like all those films of the LA Class boats shooting up out of the water at the surface) Again, not having the experience, I'm just goin mostly with what I THINK I would like without the temperment of knowledge/experience.

I do have my pencil sharpened to take notes from those of you with much more experience than I but I'm kinda stubborn when I want something. Sometimes, I make something new just because I want it that way. (Never seems to make me any money though. Nobody else wants it the way I do)

Anyway, keep posting. I'm reading every one. I'm going to research those small world models and the aforementioned links to SeaWolf/ VA Class boats.

Regards,


TimC

TimC

[tmsmalley]

All the ballast systems have

All the ballast systems have advantages and disadvantages. Gas sytems can be operated so they surface slowly or fast - but have a limited number of blow cycles and each blow slightly changes the trim of the model in the water. Some pump boats (like the SubTech Albacore) need to have a tube above the waterline to pump the tanks dry.

Go for a first model that is relatively easy and fast to build - unless you are a very experienced modeler. Some guys get part way through a complicated first build and get discouraged and their partially-completed boats wind up on ebay.

Go for a sub type that you are interested in. It takes quite awhile to build a sub (except the aforementioned Blueback and Kilo, so you had better really like your subject matter.

Don't assume your first sub will be your best or your last.

[Guest]

The Virginia class is generally

The Virginia class is generally regarded as having an awful turning radius. Matt Thor refused to release his hull because he was so appalled by it's performance.

All the various ballast systems have their pros and cons. For my money a piston tank(s) can't be beaten for accuracy of trim. That does come at a price however (unless you build a tank yourself).

I think you'll get the boat around in your pool, but you will find it restrictive.

In Germany, a lot of sub modellers fir their boats with side thrusters, and with good reason!

Andy

[PaulC]

For a pool your size

For a pool your size a Thor 1/96 Permit kit would work. It turns almost as sharply as the Blueback. We ran both type boats in a very small hotel pool at an event last summer -- and essentially had to halve the running area again due to a VERY strong water jet on one side of the pool. We both got along fine.

Again, this kit is discontinued from ThorDesign. However, you can pick one up used on occasion. And D&E is going to reintroduce it through Atomicsubs at some point.

Manley's Oyasio is a neat looking boat as well. I've seen it on the bench but not in the water yet. It should perform along the same line as Dave's other boats.

[Scale Shipyard / WLU]

What Kit

If one of Dave Manley's boats suits your fancy then I would difinatly go for it, the price may seem high but you get far more then your money's worth with his subs and his quality is the best in the industry.....and I have seen just about everything that is produced these days.

[liftmys10]

Subtech USS albacore can be

Subtech USS albacore can be run in the pool but it seriously gets boring in the pool. A small man made lake would be better especially when others are running his/her sub.

[Guest]

As you have machine tools,

As you have machine tools, and know how to use them, perhaps you might like to consider having a crack at scratchbuilding.

The following link is an excellent link, showing how to build a really nice little submersible type craft (plans, the lot)-

http://pyerok.club.fr/index.htm

I realise this isn't quite the subject you are looking for, however I think you'll find this kind of model is more fun to drive (dive?).

You can also build it for very little money.

Andy

[seaphoto]

I would concur with those

I would concur with those that recommended Dave Manley's boats. He brought one up and ran it in my pool, which was much smaller than yours, and it could turn fine without having to back up. The D&E Skipjack was also a good choice, but I only see a complete one listing on Dave Merriman's website at this time.

As far as I know, the only Thor submarine hulls still available were those from which the rights were purchased by Scale Shipyard. Another vendor had indicated they had some of the Thor product line, but they stated they destroyed all the molds and patterns at the start of the year. That's a shame, as I purchased a Sturgeon from Matt back in 1994 and was very happy with it.

Anyway, I think you will be very happy with one of Dave Manley's boats - it is as great way to learn about the hobby with a high quality unit that requires very little work to get it into the water. After you have mastered that, you will be able to use those principals learned to take on a complete hull and WTC project from just about any manufacturer.

Happy Modeling!

Kurt

[xxl]

What is the truning radius

What is the truning radius on 1\96 thor seawolf?

[bcliffe]

What is the truning radius

What is the truning radius on 1\96 thor seawolf?

It can vary depending on speed, trim, etc. My experience is

Submerged, the turning radius is acceptable I would guess 7 feet, so it would do a 14 foot circle.

On the surface umm huge, you probably need 20 feet to turn the boat in a circle.

I have seen a converted Trumpeter Seawolf, and it also liked to go straight.

Please note this is a function of the boat and not the model. Pump jet boats are known to be more clumsy.

Regardless of this, it is stil one of my favorite boats. Just one I will not run an obstacle course with.


<yup ... I'm learning about colour correction>

I would not advise getting a pump jet sub as an entry model into the hobby. The one exception to that statement may be the SWM Trenchant.

http://www.bcliffe.com/subs/Trenchant.html

So when it comes to toys for the pool. (and a nice pool it sounds like) I would be thinking.

SWM Blueback
D&E Skipjack
Steve Neil 212 (I think Atomic Subs will be the vendor for this)
Thor Permit

While the pool is big, the tighter the sub can turn the more fun you and your friends will have.

note, a sub will always turn better underwater then on the water ... research what each boat does ON the water.

Cheers
BC