Position of aft planes...

[modelnut]

I am working on a fantasy R/C sub and I have some leeway in the position of the aft diving planes. I would like some advice about where best to place them.

I am working from Greg Sharpe's NAUTILUS plans with a few modifications. The plan calls for the planes just forward of the propeller.

But I have been given strong advice to put the planes behind the propeller for the sake of automatic leveling controls.

Is this really necessary?

From quite a few pictures on this BB alone I see many subs like the SKIPJACK with the planes forward of the propeller tooling along very nicely.

Would putting the planes closer to the propeller but still forward
work just as well?

-Leelan

[modelnut]

Here is an early draft

Here is an early draft of my plan]http://groups.msn.com/ModelersAndHobbyForum/welcome.msnw[/url]

I have refined the details a bit since then.

-Leelan

[Guest]

The vanes would likely be

The vanes would likely be more effective behind the prop wash. However they'll work just fine in front of it.

Will the forward vanes work too. If so you can fit a depth controller in addition to a pitch controller.

Andy



Edited By Sub culture on 1092772647

[bob the builder]

Leelan,


My Disney Nautilus has the

Leelan,


My Disney Nautilus has the planes aft of the prop. The advantage to this is that you get immediate response from the planes so long as your throttle is up, even if the model itself is stationary. With the planes in front of the prop, your flow over the surface is less than if they were behind when the model is stationary, so you'll be counting on the model's movement to supply the flow over your control surface.

[captain nemo12]

I would also suggest putting

I would also suggest putting them behind the prop, as Bob mentionned, gives more movement. For me, many modern subs have their control surfaces, outside of the prop area (creates more noise if placed behing it), so for a fantasy sub, it might look nicer if they are just in the prop's way.

[bob the builder]

Another possibility...


Forgoe planes altogether and

Another possibility...


Forgoe planes altogether and utilize a tilteable prop assembly. The setup might be a bit more tricky (Okay, it'll be a lot more tricky...) but doing so will improve turning ability as well as attitude response. It should be a fairly simple matter to implement, with rudder and dive plane servos running to the mounting bracket to the prop assembly for horizontal and vertical actuation.

Just an idea. I don't know how that will affect the looks of your sub, but it will give a bit more leeway in terms of looks at any rate. Maybe you could still add some fake planes if you like the look.

[modelnut]

Thanks Guys!

I appreciate the input.

Thanks Guys!

I appreciate the input.

The consensus is "put them in the prop wash!" More control etc.

Even Greg Sharpe said that! And it was his design that put them even farther forward of the propeller than mine.

I still have time to make up my mind. The hull is just sitting there laughing at me now. "Yeah. You just sit there wit yur gefingerpoken. I will just sit here and not get finished. (raspberry!)"

Working on the computer is less dusty anyway...

-Leelan

[modelnut]

Bob!

I think the tiltable prop

Bob!

I think the tiltable prop assembly is a little ambitious for my first submarine model. As it is I am making up my skills as I go along. They didn't offer Shop in school when I came through. Not that I knew of anyway.

OH! And "Mr. Sulky" at the beginning of my previous post was not meant in ingratitude.

I was just hoping for more SKIPJACK drivers to chime in and tell me to do what I wanted to do and put the planes forward of the propeller.

With the rudder sticking out far aft of the propeller and the aft planes it just looks more sharklike and fantastical to me. I measured it out yesterday. The planes would clear the propeller by only a half-inch in my final plans.

Does anyone remember that photograph in Ship Modeler magazine so many years ago? The issue where I was first given a glimpse of Greg Sharpe's awesome NAUTILUS? There was a picture taken from below with the sub moving over the camera that was freakin' out of this world!

These aren't as cool but...

http://www.deepseadesigns.net/nautilus.html

http://www.deepseadesigns.net/graphic....ter.jpg

-Leelan

[captain nemo12]

One question,

Does only having the

One question,

Does only having the bow planes moving provide less movement? If so how much?

[Guest]

Hi,

Forward hydrovanes work just fine-

Hi,

Forward hydrovanes work just fine- look at the Graupner Shark!

However, you can't use a automatic pitch controller without rear hydrovanes.

You can use a depth controller with forward hydrovanes, however I have no personal experience of using a depth controller on it's own.

Anyone else care to comment?

Andy

[bob the builder]

I've got a depth controlled

I've got a depth controlled rigged into my WTC, but all of my planes are linked to work in tandem right now. Can't offer any comment on how well they work, though I've heard that they're not all that they're supposed to be.

[Guest]

Bob,

Are you saying that you

Bob,

Are you saying that you have the rear and forward hydrovanes rigged together?!!

Or have you got all four front hydrovanes working on the Nautilus?

I'm sure Ray Masons Nautilus only uses forward hydrovanes, although they were extended for practical reasons (dynamic diver).


Andy

[modelnut]

OOPS!

I goofed on my last

OOPS!

I goofed on my last post.
The stern planes will clear the propeller by only one quarter-inch or 0.6 cm - on paper anyway.

And I heard from Greg once more. "The further back the stern planes are, the better. Aft of the prop would provide the best pitch control, what with the prop thrust pushing against the planes." -Greg.

Thank you all!
-Leelan

[bob the builder]

Bob,

Are you saying that you

Bob,

Are you saying that you have the rear and forward hydrovanes rigged together?!!

Or have you got all four front hydrovanes working on the Nautilus?

I'm sure Ray Masons Nautilus only uses forward hydrovanes, although they were extended for practical reasons (dynamic diver).


Andy

Andy,


I've got three sets of dive planes on my model, the two stock sets and my "cheater" set aft of the prop.

All three sets work together in the following manner]http://www.rc-sub.com/images/modelpics/planes2.jpg[/img]


The above shot was taken prior to weathering.