Letter to Dave Manley - about your new kit

[tmsmalley]

Dave -
I'll bet you'd love another Blueback in terms of sales and I think the Gato would be it. There isn't one high quality good scale (certainly not the Dumas) US WWII boat kit (full kit, not just the hull) out there right now made in the US.

Sure there is the Engle tank ballasted Gato - made by the Germans. Does anyone else find that odd? To get a U.S. WWII submarine kit you have to buy one from Germany?

The Sierra is just another oddball Rusky boat that kind of looks like an Akula and many of the other Russian cold war boats to the casual viewer. Interesting, and neat looking but not different enough from the other Russian sub kits to be a commercial success.

I'll bet not more than a handful of the guys who voted for it would actually plunk down the $800 to buy one. Like the Oshio - kind of interesting, but I'll bet they ain't flying off the shelves - they've got no history that means anything on this side of the world except to folks who really immerse themselves in submarine micro-minutia. The Blueback had history - look how she did for you. I have told you to your face in your shop that I would be your first customer for a US fleetboat kit. I meant it too -

A US fleetboat is recognizable to the public, aesthetically pleasing, more interesting than modern boats from any other country and has a great and honorable history.

I predict they would be a better seller than any of the other boats on your list - especially for new guys or us old timers that would really like to get a US boat with some history.
The Gato class is a US "war hero" and deserves to be recognized by being represented by a full kit being manufactured by a high quality US manufacturer.

Hope that wasn't too jingoistic or rant-like Dave, but it must cost thousands to roll out a new kit. Build what will sell to more than a couple of sub moonies.

Tim

[d manley]

So are you saying you

So are you saying you want me to do a gato?

Dave.

[Antoine]

Tim !!! Are you trying

Tim !!! Are you trying to influence the jury

LOL

[bradv]

An interesting point was raised

An interesting point was raised - "to the caual viewer". Of the subs listed, "the casual viewer" is only going to see the following]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] It just depends what you're into! At the recent Aussie sub-regatta, we had an excellent showing of boats from all over the world. And with the wonderful range of interests, backgrounds and talents we have in the SC, I would hope that an offer of *entirely new* subs of many varying origins and types would be well received. I'm sure that even in the U.S. this diversity of interests would be apparent, as well as all of us "international" members of course!
</rant>

But of course there's the commercial side of things - hopefully the polls will indicate which will be the best seller, as all our vendors are very much appreciated. I hope whatever kit is choosen turns out to be a great success!

[JWLaRue]

Dave,

Assuming a Gato/Balao...what scale would

Dave,

Assuming a Gato/Balao...what scale would you be looking to make her?

-Jeff

[d manley]

These will be 1/96th scale.

Dave

These will be 1/96th scale.

Dave

[mkeatingss]

Apropos of absolutely nothing, I'd

Apropos of absolutely nothing, I'd like a Gato/Balao/Tench/ Guppy. I like the North Atlantic sail, but the Portsmouth step sail is nice, too. And functioning clamshells (Superstructure) would make access a snap.
These boats were the backbone of the US Sub Force for the first decade of the cold war. Besides, I'm biased.
Just a thought.
Mike

[thordesign]

Dave,

If you want to do

Dave,

If you want to do this for fun then any of your suggestions are good choices. However, I must agree 100% with Tim. If you are hoping for any sort of financial return at all, then there is ONLY one choice in your list. It is the Gato. The rest are all oddball models that most folks have never heard of or know what they are without looking them up. The more seasoned modelers know what they are and MIGHT buy one. An obscure soviet model like the sierra will sell about as well as my alfa, or Lee's Akula, or 1/96 alfa. You MIGHT sell one every now and then, but I seriously doubt that you would ever see the financial return to justify the kit. The Gato has the best chance at putting some coin in your pocket for all of your hard work. If you do any of the others, you will end up with a beautiful kit like your Japanese Diesel boat that does not sell well. I guarantee that will happen. Trust me on this. I think you already know this, though as you have stated a couple of years ago you were thinking about doing this very same model. Make the basic Gato planform and go with that . K.I.S.S. If anyone wants to make a modification, let the modeler do it. You cannot make money catering to every little desire for a variation.

My 2 cents worth.

[d manley]

I like to experiment from

I like to experiment from time to time and this pole is a chance to have a little fun and to maybe give a little back to the folks on these boards.
Six of these boats listed are my selfish attempt at offering up boats that I want to build; I do this because as the owner of small world models, I can!
Of all the boats I have listed, the Gato is the only boat I do not care to do, but I thought it would be the peoples choice and I think that is true if you only count the folks in the US, but since 2 out of 3 boats I sell are to other countries, I must think of that market, hence the international flavor of the choices listed,
I have been hearing about the 1/96 scale gato projects of other manufactures for years, but where are they? Listing a boat in a catalog does not make it happen and in fact if a project is listed in a catalog and in two years it is not in production in any way, it should be removed!
I know I’m ranting but I have held of on projects that other manufactures have said they were working on only to find that two of my kits later, they still haven’t produced what I had wanted to make.
I wanted to do victor-III years ago but where is it?
I wanted to do Collins class years ago but where is it?
I do not want to step on any toes by offering what is on the drawing boards or other manufactures but if you take all of what you read in the catalogs of other manufactures and what you read on the internet, it would seem that all the cool projects are taken, but where are they?
Like I said, I build what I like with a consideration for what might sell too.
If I produce a kit that someone else has plans to produce, it is not personal and I don’t like duplication in the offering of sub kits any more than any one else but as I still think the gato will be the winner of the pole albeit a narrow one, I will produce a very nice boat despite my current lack of enthusiasm for that boat. And if for some reason that boat does not win, I will still be producing a wtc for that hull and this should make current owners of 1/96th scale fleet boat hulls happy.
I make very little money at this and in fact, I never planned on making any more than I was making at my last job.
My average income for this business is about 17,000 a year and that’s ok because I am very independent and what’s most important to me is my freedom to work the hours I like and on what I like.
I do not have a family to support or many large bills to pay, just my house,
I live a simple life and am happy doing so!
Mat has mentioned before that money is not the reason to get into this business and he is quite right on this, and although I do not want to put time into a new project that wont sell, I do build what I want! And if other people want to buy it than even better!
Bluebacks are not exactly flying of the shelves; I have sold a whapping 2 of them, 1 Oyashio and one Trenchant this year so far, so if I build another boat that sells only 2 per year that’s fine.
As they say, I did it my way!
I make no excuses, my sales are very low because of the average 6-12 week wait for a boat and my not taking credit cards (yet); these conditions will change for the better in time but I will always build what I want with an eye on what will make customers happy too!

Getting back on track here, I thought the Gato would walk away with this and the vote would not even be close at all, I’m quite surprised at the results so far and the amount of responses, amazing indeed!
I know I probably didn’t impress anyone with any of this rambling, but well here it is!
I will take this time to post my vote for the walrus! However, this is not the thread to post votes on and this vote does not count as I have already voted by deciding on the boats to be voted on, I just thought you folks might want to know what my favorite is!

David Manley

[casey thrower]

I have been hearing about

I have been hearing about the 1/96 scale gato projects of other manufactures for years, but where are they? Listing a boat in a catalog does not make it happen and in fact if a project is listed in a catalog and in two years it is not in production in any way, it should be removed!

I agree, but what gets me is the webpages. You see a product, click on it and get a big fat "coming soon!" Coming soon my butt. Also, my opinion is Gato would be too costly with all the appendages and such. I guess that's why we get a lot of wishing well type advertisements. Anyway, you keep doing it the way you always do it. You may not be fastest, but you do deliver. By the way, at least you do sell your products making no prerequisite that I own one of your boats. I mean come on.

[Guest]

By the way, at least

By the way, at least you do sell your products making no prerequisite that I own one of your boats. I mean come on.

Casey,

What point are you tring to make with this comment?

Lyle

[thordesign]

Dave,

If you are referring to

Dave,

If you are referring to my post along time ago about working with Tom Anderson to produce the Victor III, well it is still in Tom's shop and in 1/72nd scale. I have never beat up on him to get it to me. I really had no interest in this boat and at the time sales were so bad I could not justify dropping another dime on an already sorry business. I dropped the 1/96 Gato project the minute you announced a year or so back that you were doing it. I guess we were waiting on each other. The pattern still sits in the rafters where it will remain.

I am going to take the Type XXI page off of my website. Response was so very, very poor when I announced that she was ready to mold and let me know if you want one, that I could not afford to take the chance of not making my money back. So it will sit and gather dust. A boat costs so much money to bring to production, if there is no interest, it makes no sense to drop thousands of $$$ to produce it.

Good luck with your projects, you do outstanding work!

[JWLaRue]

Casey,

I have a bit of

[color=#000000]Casey,

I have a bit of a problem with your comment......in that you infer that Dave sells (and has always sold) parts for his kits]

[d manley]

I don’t remember back that

I don’t remember back that far about the servo drives, yes I must have had a reason but I don’t remember it now however I have been offering them for years at least 3, and I do remember Jim Wheeler saying that your interested in them and I told him no problem and that you could call any time.
I don’t advertise them at least not yet but they have been available for quite a while now, just not always in stock!
As for selling the Parts for what I make, yes, I sell complete kits only, but accessories like wtc’s and the parts that come with them.
If someone wants one of my sub kits, they get one of the most complete packages out there and that’s how I sell them.
If people want a wtc or accessory for a wtc, they get that too, it just doesn’t include hulls.
If a hull is damaged, I have hulls for replacement only.
I am no different than other venders around; I offer some things and not others, my prerogative.
Now the victor three i'm thinking of was in 1/96 and I was told by a guy named John Amdur back in 99 that I think marrimen was working on but i’m not shore.
Speaking of john, His drawings of Russian subs were superb, and I wish he would make his presence known some day, a supper nice guy!
He was part inspiration for my kilo kit.
Sorry about the gato Mat, I honestly don’t remember you working on one in that scale; I thought it was 1/48th
All of my subs will be 1/96th and always have been since 1998.
I didn’t want to piss anyone off, just wanted to give a little nudge here and there.

Dave

[Guest]

Dave,

I'll thank you for the

Dave,

I'll thank you for the "nudge"! I started out as a consumer in the hobby, and I was attracted to the "complete kit" models. Skip pioneered that concept and it has worked well for him. That's why I have worked with Matt T. and David M. to supply "all inclusive" (hull, wtc, electronics, radio) kits as well. Some may suffer from sticker shock but in the end the amount spent is the same if not more. I've always felt that getting all of your components from one vender is the way to go; less aggravation for the end user. As for my Skate project, she is still very much alive. I have been very patient with those who are involved with the project and I ask that those who are waiting for the kit to be patient as well. ”If I can be, you can be as well.” The kit will be worth the wait! I look forward to seeing the Skate run with one of your Gatos

All the best with the Gato and, by the way, I was hoping for the I-19

Lyle