First Sub - Need a little help with choosing sub.

[tigerclaw27]

Hi, I've decided to put togather my first submarine. I've done some research and have narrowed down my choice to either the Robbe U-47 or the SubTech Albacore. So I have a few questions about both models.

I know the U-47 is a dynamic diving system, eventually I'd like to install some sort of balast tank system, how difficult is this?

What else is needed to run the U-47? (R/C system?)

Is the U-47 a dry hull sub?

How much room is there in either of these for other "enhancements" ?

Is there anything I should think about when choosing one of these two subs?

Any and all, answers and suggestions are greatly appriciated.

Thanks all,
Mark

[nautilus]

HELO MARK, BRIAN HERE I

HELO MARK, BRIAN HERE I REALY DON`T NOW A LOT ABOUT THE U 47 SUB I BELIVE IT IS A VACUM FORM KIT THAT REQUIRES A LOT OF ASSAMBLEY AND KNOW HOW DYNAMIK DIVING SUBS ARE NOT AS MUCH FUN AS BALLIST BOATS,BUT YOU HAVE LESS CHANCE OF LOSSING A SUB THAT MUST BE FORCED DIVED,THE SUBTECK MODELS COME AS A COMPLETE PACKAGE KIT`S IF YOU WANT, MODEL,DIVE GEAR,BALLEST,ALL IN ONE! FOR A GOOD PRICE.AND I THINK THE FIRST SUB YOU BUY SHOULD BE AS EASY TO BUILD AND OPERATE AS YOU CAN BUY! D&E`S LITTLE SKIP JACK IS A NICE BOAT!! ALONG WITH THEIR WTC, IT IS A GOOD COMBO ASWELL! FOR THE MONEY AND CONSTRUCTION EASE, SUBTECK MIGHT BE YOU BEST SHOT! WISH I NEW MORE, CALL SKIP ASAY HE CAN COMMENT BETTER. HAVE FUN BRIAN STARKES

[tigerclaw27]

Thanks Brian, I have also

Thanks Brian, I have also been looking at the Blueback kit from Small World Models. Its similar in size to the D&E Skipjack. I've pretty much ruled out the U-47 as a first project, because its simply too big to fit in my working space, and is probably more complex then I want to start with. As far as the Blueback kit goes, I cant really find any details on it, especially the type of ballast system it uses. Also there isnt much detail on their site as to what the deluxe kit comes with? Does it include an R/C system? Does anyone know?

Thanks,
Mark

[Guest]

I know the U-47 is


I know the U-47 is a dynamic diving system, eventually I'd like to install some sort of balast tank system, how difficult is this?

Depends on your ability. How much modelling experience have you. Do you have a workshop, or acces to one.

Fitting a ballast system into the U47 is not a big deal, but could raise a few problems for a newcomer to the hobby.

What else is needed to run the U-47? (R/C system?)

Minimum of a 3 channel set, 4 channels if you want a static ballast sytem. An automatic pitch controller is highly recommended, although not essential. You will also need an ESC and batteries.

Is the U-47 a dry hull sub?

No. It has a tube/pressure hull mounted inside the vacformed outer hull. It is very strong, and of good design.

How much room is there in either of these for other "enhancements" ?

Don't know about the Albacore, but space in the U47 is a tad tight, especially when incorporating a ballast system. Careful planning will ensure success.

Is there anything I should think about when choosing one of these two subs?

Yes, how big your pond is. How big your car is to transport it. How big your muscles are to lift it. How big your wallet is to afford it!

Fo a beginners kit I favour Norbert Bruggens Delphin- nice little model is that!

Andy

[stevel14]

Hi Mark,

I have one of

Hi Mark,

I have one of Small World Model's Bluebacks. It is a beautifully detailed little boat and is very sturdy. The finished length is about 30", and it has a gas ballast system. Mine was one of the basic kits that were less prefabricated, and I believe this version is no longer offered. The deluxe version has more of the assembly already done which makes it quicker and easier to get the boat in the water.

In contrast, the Albacore uses a pump to flood and empty the ballast tank, but does offer a gas option as back-up to the pump.

I know of several people who are using one of Small World Models for their first boat. If I ever find the time, I intend to build another one of their products as well.

Steve Laubmeier
SC# 2442

[anonymous]

Hi Mark,

Can't speak for the

Hi Mark,

Can't speak for the U-47, but I built an ALBACORE as my first boat. Fun boat to build and run. Plus, you get the added benefit of Skip's excellent technical support.

Chris
SC 1614

[carcharadon]

Mark,
Just wanted to toss in

Mark,
Just wanted to toss in a few comments about dynamic versus static diving. I think much of this choice depends on where you’re going to run the sub. If you're planning a pool sub dynamic is out or less of a good choice. If you have a shallow lake or pond with a lot of debris dynamic is out. I have a 7 ft. sub, which I made both but ultimately chose to keep it dynamic. However I'm fortunate in that my pond is on the order of 40 to 50 acres, 30 to 50 ft. depth and a mostly sandy bottom. The water itself is highly organic i.e. rich in phytoplankton and therefore poor visibility. But otherwise this is an ideal pond for a dynamic diver. Best advantage is that it always comes up.

[toneburst]

Hi Mark,

I've been working on

Hi Mark,

I've been working on the U47 for more than a year now. I bought the U as my first sub, for the simple reason I didn't have a lot of knowledge about other sub kits. That has changed (have build and finished the Engel Lafayette as a break) If you want my opinion, if you want to buy a sub that just 'looks a bit like one' and don't care about the dynamic diving principle, it might be the sub for you.
If you want it to be a static sub, and secondly a scale-like representative boat better think twice!
I've put a lot of effort in making the U47 (it's U96 now) really look fine (rivvets/weldlines/periscopes/conning tower etc.) and am still working on the static diving system (using compressed air) and therefore completely rebuilding the internal techrack. Some parts of the U47 kit are a bit 'cheaply' designed, and if you really want the kit to be with you for some years many parts should be replaced with better material (drive-motors, prop shafts, seals, rudder links) etc.
To be short]http://home.planet.nl/~beast/Pics/120304.JPG[/url]

Engel kits]http://www.engel-modellbau.de[/url]

Hope this helps.

Jos

[thordesign]

I would like to throw

I would like to throw in my 2 cents here. I have been at this game for quite a while and have helped a lot of newcomers in the hobby. After helping folks with almost every kit that has come out in the last 10 years I can say that, in my opinion, the SubTech Albacore is BY FAR the best way to go. It has everything you need. Every detail has been designed for ease of construction, ease of use, and reliability. I have yet to see a newcomer with the Albacore who has not been successful. That is the ONLY boat I can say this about. No other available boat, in my opinion, addresses the issues of the newcomer to the hobby in the way that the Albacore does. Don't forget the Marlin! It was developed after the Albacore using the same basis for its design. You cannot go wrong with Skip's boats!

[safrole]

You name the exact two

You name the exact two boats between which I was choosing. Let me read your mind... you're thinking about money! I know I wanted a U-boat or a Gato so bad I could taste it, but there was no way I was parting with the kind of loot an Engel would take. So I went with the Robbe even though I didn't like the dynamic diving, because I figured I would add money later to put in a dive tank. Kind of a payment plan towards my real goal. You may end up putting in all the money, perhaps, but at least it's in installments. You can read about the dive tank install and shaft seal install here]http://www.modelbrass.com/U47Modifications.htm[/url]

I was very close to buying that Albacore though, and can't see that being a bad choice either. Too bad that marinerc.com has been taken down. I must have read the buildups on those two boats a dozen times. Besides those, I kept thinking about that Hermelin, too, except I could tell it would take skilled painting to look as good as the one they showed on the web, since the body is a smooth tube. The hermelin's engineering and completeness was very attractive to me, too.

Are you in the US?

[tigerclaw27]

Thanks for all the input

Thanks for all the input everyone. I've crossed off the U-47 (for now), and have looked at the Lafayette, which looks impressive. I like its ballast system much better then the pump used by the Albacore. I have the time to put it togather and the price isnt bad. Does anyone know a retailer (maybe online) of Engel models here in Canada or the US? I'm affraid the shipping and duties from Europe will double the price of the sub. Also anyone else have experience with the Lafayette?

Again thanks to everyone that has responed so far,
Mark

[tigerclaw27]

Does anyone suggest for me

Does anyone suggest for me not to get the Engel Lafayette? If not, then I'm pulling the trigger on this one at midnight pacific. It seems like a really nice sub, which shouldnt take more then 100 hours to put togather (and probably another few dozen hours to paint).

Btw what is a good remote system? Something that is sturdy and nicely built?

Thanks for all the help,
Mark

[Guest]

Mark,

Looks like you've got

Mark,

Looks like you've got some choosing to do with all the advise that you have been given. Well I'll ad my 3 cents worth. All things being equal, You should go with the kit that best fits your modeling experience. The SubTech kits are ,for the money, THE BEST kit for the beginning submarine modeler. They are a quick build and are very easily operated. The last thing you want is to invest $1300+ dollars on a sub that has a large operational learning curve or ends up only half finished and finds a home underneath your work bench (as many a submarine kit has) due to frustration. At $700 US for a complete SubTech kit (that's everything you'll need including the radio) is a good "get your feet wet kit." If you want to go bigger later, a SubTech kit will hold its value making it easy to step up to that bigger kit after you've got a little stick time under your belt.

As a side note, Skip let me run both his Albacore and Marlin at the '03 SF regatta and they both handled like a dream. I will own a Marlin this year myself!

Well, these are my humble observations and I wish you well on your quest for your first sub!

Lyle Jansma - Atomic Subs

[safrole]

Geez, a deadline even! You

Geez, a deadline even! You can get your lafayette from Frank at Subconcepts. Tell him Jason from SC urged you vehemently to call him, so I get political credit. <grin>

He's just getting back from a short trip so I don't think you'll raise him on the phone even tomorrow, but give it a shot. He sells a lot of those lafayettes and says he like building them a lot better than the other Engels. He also gets dynamite deals on shipping from Europe, so he'll put it in your hands a lot cheaper, and without any latent costs.

--Jason

http://www.subconcepts.com

[Guest]

Mark,

Go with SubTech kit and

Mark,

Go with SubTech kit and I'll cover the Basic Electronics!

Lyle

SubTech



Edited By Atomic Subs on 1085464732