What's the best "first kit" to build for an R/C sub?

[sam reichart]

This question used to be one of the most popular ones that got asked when people decided to get into R/C subs. So, I'm going to throw that question out here. I have some ideas about what would constitute a great "first boat", but I'm curious to see what the people that frequent our boards think is a good answer.

I know money is always one of the deciding factors in buying a kit, but I'm going to ask that people leave out the "make your own everything" for now.

So, what's your idea of the best first boat? Just to add some diversity, let's consider three classes of subs; modern subs, "other" subs, and "older" boats.

Any thoughts?

[salmon]

I would also add other as a category.... I like the Neptune SB-1 by ThunderTiger.
As far as modern, I would vote for Revell/Moebius 1/72 Skipjack

[sam reichart]

I would also add other as a category.... I like the Neptune SB-1 by ThunderTiger.
As far as modern, I would vote for Revell/Moebius 1/72 Skipjack

Modern-
Older-
Other-

sounds good to me.

[JWLaRue]

It's hard for me to pick a best "first kit" for an R/C sub. Whenever I get asked that question I do not focus on what era for the sub (e.g.: nuke or pre-nuke). Rather I try to make sure that the person will have a positive experience and thus stay with the hobby. To that end, I prefer to focus on the skills that the person brings to the hobby and the availability of a local support group to help them.

...yea, I know....I'm not answering Sam's question.

-Jeff

[sam reichart]

It's hard for me to pick a best "first kit" for an R/C sub. Whenever I get asked that question I do not focus on what era for the sub (e.g.: nuke or pre-nuke). Rather I try to make sure that the person will have a positive experience and thus stay with the hobby. To that end, I prefer to focus on the skills that the person brings to the hobby and the availability of a local support group to help them.

-Jeff

thanks for the reply Jeff. When I've heard this question in the past, it always came with a bias towards a certain class of boat. Some wanted to build a sub with all the guns and extras. Some wanted to build a sleek new hull. Some people are drawn to subs because they loved the 20,000 leagues "Nautilus" and want to build that.
There's absolute truth to what you posted; having a positive experience ("I put a boat in the water and it sank and and came back up!"), and help getting it done and support going forward.
But, play devil's advocate here for me. If you had to pick one model of each of the classes I mentioned, what would you pick? You've built and run a bunch of different models.

And, I'm not trying to "sell" any one particular vendor or model or ballast system here. Just trying to get a discussion going around a question that I've heard or asked myself for years...

[JWLaRue]

Fair enough, Sam! I think most know where *my* bias for a first boat lies: Type II/VII U-boat.

A Type VIIC was my first build, back in the bad old days of no Internet. Based on advertising in the SCR I purchased a DK Models Type VIIC kit and a D&E Miniatures WTC. I knew that the build was going to be something of a stretch, but that's the boat I wanted and I was willing to take the time to do it right. It helped that I was able to lean on Jim Butt for some of my questions. And Sam, you no doubt remember helping me to do the final trim.

That same build is where I also tackled making my first photo-etch decks.

btw: that first build took about a year.

-Jeff

[ccontrol]

Money aside I'd go with:

Modern - Engel Type 212
Older - Arkmodel Type VII with snort cylinder
Other - 1/72 Skipjack with snort cylinder or R&R twin piston cylinder

The 212 is as complete a kit as I think you can find and can be troubleshot remotely.
The Arkmodel Type VII is a beautifully made kit that will bridge the gap from static plastic model builder to RC Skipper pretty well. Also a nice size and scale "presence" on the water.
The Skipjack has a huge body of knowledge now with many accessible helpers.

I do think the subject matters, even to new builders, because the passion and interest you have in a given subject boat will help carry you through the dry spells and frustrations you inevitably run across in this fairly challenging hobby.

[sam reichart]

Money aside I'd go with:

Modern - Engel Type 212
Older - Arkmodel Type VII with snort cylinder
Other - 1/72 Skipjack with snort cylinder or R&R twin piston cylinder


The 212 is as complete a kit as I think you can find and can be troubleshot remotely.
The Arkmodel Type VII is a beautifully made kit that will bridge the gap from static plastic model builder to RC Skipper pretty well. Also a nice size and scale "presence" on the water.
The Skipjack has a huge body of knowledge now with many accessible helpers.

I do think the subject matters, even to new builders, because the passion and interest you have in a given subject boat will help carry you through the dry spells and frustrations you inevitably run across in this fairly challenging hobby.

Good choices here as well. I have the Arkmodel Type VII, and if you don't want to get too fancy with extra detailing, this is a great kit. I like the Engel 212 as well, and it does seem to be pretty complete.
And, yep, where your passion is, there goes your dedication to getting it done.
I see lots of folks talking about that 1/72 Skipjack. I have to think that's pretty easy to get running. The kit cost has to help a lot there!

I'll throw in a couple I always thought were easy entry, more "modern" boats. Dave Manley's "Blueback" with his ballast system. Had some nice extra details on that mode, tool. I know Bob Martin is selling a version of it again...
Matt's Permit seems to fall in this category as well. Building the "Permit", or the "LA", or the "Alfa" took no time for me. They only needed you to decide what ballast system to run...
D&E's venerable "Skipjack" was like that as well. Kind of fell together... and with the D&E WTC 3.0, you were off and running.



I can think of a few that no one should consider as a "first" boat (having done my first with one of them, I can speak with authority on that...

What else ya got?

[salmon]

My first sub (that I completed) was the Revell Gato. I would not put that on the beginners list, but because I love the sub, I fought through it. So, what Jeff said is true. It will depend on what you are interested in. I think another helping factor, no matter what you pick as your first sub is getting support from others in the hobby.

[eckloss]

An oddball I'm going to throw in the mix is Mike Shubar's rework of Al Matava's 1/72 Los Angeles. It's on the bigger side, but the build is fairly straightforward and intuitive, like Matt's boats. The reason I add this boat IS because of it's size. It's fairly easy to get the linkages and such worked out in the stern, as compared to smaller boats being much more troublesome. Also room for a variety of cylinders, so the user pretty much has his choice. Not elaborately scribed, there's room to add a lot of detail, or keep it as is, still commanding a presence on the water. I still have two unbuilt ones I got from the raffle a few years ago. I plan to throw one together for the regatta. Just a nice, easy no BS build. A good learner's boat IMHO.

[sam reichart]

An oddball I'm going to throw in the mix is Mike Shubar's rework of Al Matava's 1/72 Los Angeles. It's on the bigger side, but the build is fairly straightforward and intuitive, like Matt's boats. The reason I add this boat IS because of it's size. It's fairly easy to get the linkages and such worked out in the stern, as compared to smaller boats being much more troublesome. Also room for a variety of cylinders, so the user pretty much has his choice. Not elaborately scribed, there's room to add a lot of detail, or keep it as is, still commanding a presence on the water. I still have two unbuilt ones I got from the raffle a few years ago. I plan to throw one together for the regatta. Just a nice, easy no BS build. A good learner's boat IMHO.

Great point about the size of the stern and linkages. One of the things that does make the smaller boats more difficult is getting all that hardware in a tiny space for the rudders and planes. Throw a prop shaft in the middle, and yeah, it’s hair pulling time.
Maybe having premade linkages would help in those cases.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

Depending on the size of the model, making your own stern linkage parts is rather simple.

Here is a photo of rudder, stern planes and sail planes control parts.
Made from wheel collars and 1/16" brass rod.
And a bit of soldering.


The brass rod is bent before the upper and lower hull halves are put together to make sure it all fits the curve of the hull and the propeller shaft is free to turn.

[sam reichart]

Depending on the size of the model, making your own stern linkage parts is rather simple.

Here is a photo of rudder, stern planes and sail planes control parts.
Made from wheel collars and 1/16" brass rod.
And a bit of soldering.


The brass rod is bent before the upper and lower hull halves are put together to make sure it all fits the curve of the hull and the propeller shaft is free to turn.

Hi Ralph. Yep, if you can solder and do a little metal working, they aren’t difficult to produce. But in a 1/72 scale Skipjack, or a 1/96 Alfa, that’s a small space in which to install them. Lots of experimenting and fitting....

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

The parts in the photo are in my 1/72 Skipjack. (avatar image)
I have modified my hull several times.
From Z cut to centerline cut and I moved the tail cone cut all the way back to the leading edge of the rear planes.
Each time, it made working in the hull easier.

Here I am cutting the tail cone closer to the rear planes.
You can see the original cut to the left of the blue tape.

[bob the builder]

The new Blueback kit based on the SWM tooling is a great starter boat with very detailed instructions. For a first boat, it's darned near ideal. The rear tail assembly come pre-installed with linkages and control surfaces as well, making it a breeze to get put together.

Bob