Wanted: An inexpensive old/ needs repair first sub

[Jason126]

New member here, hoping someone might have a really old, or in need of repair complete submarine they are willing to part with for cheap. I am new to the hobby and do not have a lot to invest at the moment but want to get started! My top budget at the moment would be $100, I don't care what it is or what scale I would just like to get on the water. If it needs major repairs that's ok!

I purchased a Trumpeter Kilo kit a few years back that is still in the box, I do not have any other components for it.

I have motors, servos and radio gear I could spare from my RC airplane hangar. Still using 72mHz for my air equipment, probably not legal for ground use in the US if I recall?

[subdude]

Hi Jason, and welcome! Glad to have you aboard.

While what you're asking will be difficult, it's not impossible. You've already identified one of the issues, radio gear. You are correct, 72mhz is not legal for ground use in the USA, nor is it recommended. While the likelihood of crashing someone's plane is less now that many fliers have gone to 2.4g, it's still something to be concerned with. See if you can turn up a ground frequency (75Mhz) radio set. While they are harder to find these days, used ones do pop up. One of our local members just last month sold a pair of 4 channel ones very inexpensively.

The other thing that you'll need that isn't readily available used are pitch controllers. (similar to a helicopter gyro, but for subs). While you technically don't "need' one, trust me, you want one.

Most everything else can be either sourced second hand, or scratch built. Expensive WTC's are very nice, but I've built any number of them from scrap PVC pipe. Cost:free.

You may be able to find a beat up used hull cheap, or even free. Or, break out that Kilo and start building.

The most important thing I can tell you is to find a local group if available and get involved. There is a wealth of knowledge available that you can get firsthand. Don't know where you are, but if you let us know we can try to point you in the right direction.

I'm going to leave this thread in the subswap for now, but if it evolves into a '"how-to" discussion, I'll probably move it to the R/C discussion.

Again, welcome!

Jim

[Jason126]

Subdude,
Thanks for the advice, I am in Columbia, SC. After a brief search I did not really see anything in the southeast. I do recall there being a lot of sub club activity in my home town of Virginia Beach.

[thor]

Subtech markets new Futaba 75 Mhz radios and its own SubCimmander VI 75 Mhz system.

[jim smith]

Hi Jason, welcome to the club. One of the first subs I built was a wooden boat called Spook from Model Boats magazine issue 575. It is a dynamic diver system and I think the whole build cost only a little over a $100. I still have the plans if you would like a copy send me a email at jvsmith@lakefield.net.

Jim

[bob the builder]

Just being honest here, Jason. If you're after a complete boat, old and non-functional or not, $100 is going to be problematic.

My advice to you, as funds are what seems to be your biggest hurdle, would be to buy one of the excellent plastic model kits that are in your $100 price range and start building them up for RC conversion. These include the Trumpeter Kilo, the Moebius Skipjack, the Bronco XXIII, Revell Type VII or IX and others. Over time, you can save up more that will get you your guts.

Take it from someone that has been building subs for a long time, working with someone else's junk is rarely worth it, regardless what you buy it for. Start with the plastic kit, spend the time getting it rigged for RC, then save up for the electronics. You'll come out far ahead of the game, much happier, and with a much higher chance of success.


Bob

[eckloss]

I'm going to agree with Bob. In my experience with this hobby, it is usually true that you get what you pay for. A pre-owned or cheaply made boat in the $100 range never stops there. The price climbs as you add functionality. A $100 junker is could still going to cost you a small fortune. And, as Bob said, you can start with a plastic hull, but in all honesty you need to be prepared to spend a few pennies to get it in the water. I've owned and built boats that have reached over the $3,000 mark. However, I'm not saying it's totally impossible. One of my favorite boats that floats in our hobby's fleet cost only $300 to make it operational. Not trying to be a downer, just trying to be realistic.

[Jason126]

Bob and eckloss, thanks for the advice. I totally understand that. I should have more money to work with in the near future. For the moment I went ahead and ordered the Revell Type 212 in 1/144. That's one nice looking sub! Planning to do some design work with it in CAD that should keep me busy for a while.

[sam reichart]

The Bronco Type XXIII can still be found on eBay for less than $100.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

Type 212 in 1/144 scale.
That is a very small model.
Converting to inches makes this model about 15.31" long with a beam of about 1.86

It is a very nice looking boat.
Engel's makes this boat in 1-70 scale.
They have 3 kits each with different options. all the way to a complete kit that you just assemble.

[subdude]

And as I said, since this has evolved into a "how-to" thread, I've relocated it to R/C models.

Keep the good comments and ideas going!

Jim

[salmon]

If I may throw my $ .02 in, sometimes we think small means less expensive. That may not be the case. When it comes to electronics used, they are the same price for both large and small for the most part. There is a price for frustration and trying to learn a new hobby. Getting a larger sub like the Bronco Type XXIII or the Moebius (Revell) Skipjack will offer you room to learn on and not getting frustrated with packing what seems like 10 pounds of stuff into a 5 pound space that you get in small subs. Both the Type XXIII and the Skipjack mentioned are GREAT first time starter kits. I have built both subs and I have built some smaller sub WTCs. I recovered some sanity from the larger subs.

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

A little show and tell.
This is a 1/144 scale George Washington.
Length = 31"
Beam = 3"


There are 3 cylinder sections.
The right section is 2" and the center section is 1.5".

The 212 in 1/144 scale diameter is in between these two diameters.
And the length of these 3 sections is longer than the 212.

You may note that there is no ballast tank in the photo.
It is a rubber bag that goes around the center section to operate.

Here is the George Washington in front of the 1/72 scale Skipjack.


Here is the Skipjack's cylinder.


Cylinder
Length = 24"
Diameter = 3.25"

Both boats have the same equipment inside but the Skipjack has the ballast tank inside the cylinder where the GW has it on the outside because of room restrictions.
The GW motors, Rx, pumps are smaller and some of those parts where more expensive because of their small size.
To work on any one part in the GW, I have to completely disassemble all the equipment.
The Skipjack, I can remove most parts without disassembling the complete tech rack.

Looking at the size of the 1/144, 212, I might consider making it a surface running boat before attempting to making it fully submersible.
The 212 has X tail controls which needs 2 servos even if running as a surface boat.

Basically, like Salmon, I prefer the mid size submarines. 36" to 60".
When I started they were much bigger just to get the electrical equipment in them.
As I am much older now, the big boats are too heavy to handle out of the water.

My comments are not to discourage you.
Just to let you know, I and other have been where you are and if you need help, we are here to offer support and assistance that you can use or change to fit your needs and vision.

There is no one way to build a working submarine.
I have 4 boats and I have 4 different ballast systems and 3 different drive system.

[Jason126]

A little show and tell.
This is a 1/144 scale George Washington.
Length = 31"
Beam = 3"


There are 3 cylinder sections.
The right section is 2" and the center section is 1.5".

The 212 in 1/144 scale diameter is in between these two diameters.
And the length of these 3 sections is longer than the 212.

You may note that there is no ballast tank in the photo.
It is a rubber bag that goes around the center section to operate.

Here is the George Washington in front of the 1/72 scale Skipjack.


Here is the Skipjack's cylinder.


Cylinder
Length = 24"
Diameter = 3.25"

Both boats have the same equipment inside but the Skipjack has the ballast tank inside the cylinder where the GW has it on the outside because of room restrictions.
The GW motors, Rx, pumps are smaller and some of those parts where more expensive because of their small size.
To work on any one part in the GW, I have to completely disassemble all the equipment.
The Skipjack, I can remove most parts without disassembling the complete tech rack.

Looking at the size of the 1/144, 212, I might consider making it a surface running boat before attempting to making it fully submersible.
The 212 has X tail controls which needs 2 servos even if running as a surface boat.

Basically, like Salmon, I prefer the mid size submarines. 36" to 60".
When I started they were much bigger just to get the electrical equipment in them.
As I am much older now, the big boats are too heavy to handle out of the water.

My comments are not to discourage you.
Just to let you know, I and other have been where you are and if you need help, we are here to offer support and assistance that you can use or change to fit your needs and vision.

There is no one way to build a working submarine.
I have 4 boats and I have 4 different ballast systems and 3 different drive system.

Thanks Ralph and everyone! After taking it all in I think I am going to go with the 1/72 Kilo kit from Nautilus Drydocks using their ready-built WTC. I like bigger anyway

One question on the gas ballast systems such as are used in ND's subdriver units, can they be partially vented/filled? Or is it only practical to either have the tank ballast tank completely vented or empty if that makes sense? I'm just imagining the compressed gas (airbrush propellant) must empty the tank fairly quickly since its under pressure. Is it possible to partially blow the tank? To go from fully submerged to periscope depth without breaking the surface?

I saw mentioned one place that the compressed gas systems had to be either one or the other and could not be partially filled/empty. I really like the Engel piston ballast system since I know it could vented to any variation in between but their stuff is too expensive for me at the moment.

Also putting the word out there I am interested in finding submariners, clubs or events to connect with in the southeast US. I live in Columbia, SC.

[salmon]

The reason you want your ballast tank fully filled while diving, like a Sub-Driver, is that any air in there will compress with depth (Boyle's law). Even small difference can cause issues. As a rule, your sub should be set up to be positive buoyant and the forward motion will cause it to dive. If you make your sub heavier and use a bubble (which will move around in the tank) to keep the sub from sinking, you run the risk that in an emergency your sub will not come back up. Lets say you get a short, all electronics stop working, what brings your sub up? Nothing. O.K. with that being typed, I know of captains that do just what you mention and run great. They know the risk, but run the sub in waters that they can see their sub and retrieve if something goes wrong.

Piston systems are great too.

Build what you have and grow from there.

Peace,
tom