2.4 in model subs

[QuarterMaster]

Apparently the gentleman who wrote the thread I learned from got reception up to 1/4" below. Not sure about you, but I can't hold a tolerance like that for long periods.

Dragging the antenna...let's call it a "Floating Wire" to keep in line with our 1:1 Scale brethren is an interesting concept. IF the coax actually floats.

Might be worth testing PROVIDED we can have the end of the coax lay on the surface.

Anyone out there willing to simulate a BRA-8 Buoy on a Boomer??? lol

[SubtechRC]

Ed,

That makes 2 of us. I lost signal immediately when there was less than 1/2" or so above the surface. I don't think a floating antennae will work well. 2.4 ghz has a critical length. You won't have much to drag behind or you exceed the critical length. 2.4 ghz behaves quite differently than 75 mhz in salt water. It is very finicky!

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

A suggestion would be to run a taller than normal mast antenna.
Around these parts, I see antennas about 3" to 4" higher than normal and are run with 1" above the surface.
--
These are usually on 40 mhz Rx.
(these are capable of running with the antenna below the surface but I think they use the tall masts just to keep track of their boats o very long runs.
As much as 1 hour at a time.

I have not see anyone using 2.4 ghz.

[QuarterMaster]

Ed,

2.4 ghz has a critical length. You won't have much to drag behind or you exceed the critical length. 2.4 ghz behaves quite differently than 75 mhz in salt water. It is very finicky!

Matt,

Let me be clear here.
Since one needs to use a coax cable to exit the WTC and route it's way UP to the sail, conning tower to act as a practical antenna. the ONLY critical dimension is the LAST 1.25" since that has the OUTER Jacket and braided shield removed. That exposes the inner jacket and CENTER conductor, which needs to be waterproofed using adhesive shrink tubing. THAT 1.25" end is the actual antenna. You can certainly run 3, 4 or maybe even 8 feet of coax out the hull, since THAT is the shielded section and the antenna itself at the very end does not have it.

You're absolutely correct , if the antenna begins to submerge, and the water will actually change the tuning characteristic of that last VERTICAL 1.25" as it's so damn critical in tuning! as you pass -.50 (as you did), you now have only .75" exposed and you lose tune thereby causing issues!

So Providing it can:
1-Float completely horizontal on the end w/o additional assistance.
2-Remain horizontal on the surface at all speeds.

It 'might work".

I'm gonna go all Mythbusters and say "Plausible".

But is it practical?

Do you want 6' of wire trialing behind the boat? I don't, I get caught up in enough debris as it is. Try telling the surface runners to stay out from behind you.

FWIW, the outer jacket is thin enough the prop of a surface runner can nick it allowing h2o to capillary action itself into the boat. I damaged mind trying a stupid repair in Groton and indeed got water in the boat. Had I known what I was doing it would not of been a problem, but the point is to limit damage.

The more I think, the more one should forget about trailing ANYTHING.

[QuarterMaster]

A suggestion would be to run a taller than normal mast antenna.
Around these parts, I see antennas about 3" to 4" higher than normal and are run with 1" above the surface.
--
These are usually on 40 mhz Rx.
(these are capable of running with the antenna below the surface but I think they use the tall masts just to keep track of their boats o very long runs.
As much as 1 hour at a time.

When I purchased my DeBoer Skipjack hull back in '95 from Jim Wheeler, he explained to me why he had these WAY over sized 'scopes and antenna's coming out the sail. She has maybe a 12" or so keel depth from top of sail. His antennas added another 10" of so. He said he runs with surface guys that don't necessarily look out for his best interest. I run with surface guys, so it made sense to me not to change and she runs deep. Worse damage I get is a distinct "twaaaaaang" if she gets hit, and she has! Actually you don't hear the twang of course unless I demo it on the bench to onlookers, you more or less see it and I hear it in my head lol.

So adding an over sized 2.4gHz stick was not even an after thought.

I personally am not a scale nut with my running boats. Sure I've seen people shake their head when they look close at my boats, or take out a measure and inspect, but in the end I don't give a $#*!, because I personally place functionality before scale in my build priority list, again for my RUNNING boat's. My static builds are different.
That's me.

I love it when anyone with anything run's with me. As long as they run.

BE proud your boat, regardless!

Not sure of the point, but I guess I'm saying I don't measure peoples mast's and understand why some people do things that others don't lol.

I have not see anyone using 2.4 ghz.

Ralph, I just received two more Corona 2.4gHz 8Ch receivers, giving me a total of six that I plan to bind to my converted Robbe F14 twin stick (I just LOVE that TX). That brings a total of 5 Boat's that will run 2.4 in my fleet. One is reserved for a Vietnam PBR boat in the future lol. All these subs have scopes. Two boats that don't, Goff NAUTILUS and PROTEUS will use 75mHz. FWIW, my 1/96 Lafayette Class GRANT is getting one of the new ones, and she DOES have scale scopes, but again,when she runs, she'll have an additional, longer stick lol.

That's how much I enjoy this new system. I'm not getting into the pro's and con's, it's a personal choice. All I will say 99% of MY run time is at lakes/ponds with DARK water. So 99% of the time I run at PD. I'm old school Mike Dory/Skip Assay, you don't lose sight of your boat scopes. Running at pools is a rarity for me so the pluses of 2.4gHz works for me.

Funny thing is that Mr. Merriman at this past Groton FunRun told me it's an interim step as we Submariners find a more viable solution, and that's ok too. But it does what I want and is readily available. That's why I am a guy you do know that runs 2.4gHz.

[SubtechRC]

Ed,

You are correct and let me repeat myself a bit. First, the 20" critical length I am talking about is total length of UNSHIELDED antenna. I apologize, I should have been more specific. With the coax installed and the conductor shielded I lost contact as described above. I knew that 2.4 Ghz has a critical maximum length for the antenna so I was playing around to see what it was. For my system, it seems to be right around 20". Now, with the conductor shielded, the minimum unshielded antenna length above the surface for reliable reception seems to be around 1 1/2".

As far as an interim system, I would agree with Mr Merriman. There is still a ton of new 75 mhz gear available, new 27 mhz AM gear available new (not my preference, but it works), and the new 915 mhz systems are available and are improving quickly. If you're willing to get your HAM amateur license, the 433 mhz systems are readily available and very capable. We have lots of options so there is no need for a panic.

Keep up the great work, Ed!

[wlambing]

Ed,

Just call it the "Transit" mast, like on the 1:1 scale 41 for Freedom! Tallest mast we had. Or, make one like the telemetry mast they put on at Cape Canaveral for DASO ops. Ugly, but functional. And, who's to call you on it? I'll back you up!

B^)

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

I read all the post regarding the radios changes going on.
With the 75mhz system disappearing slowly, there will be a time when we sub operators will have to make changes.

My reference is my local area group.
Some known people are part of the group that gathers every couple of months.
Just to name, names, Mike Dory, Will Oudmayer and Darrin Hataway.
These are very experienced in submarine builders and operators.

When I said I have not seen any one running 2.5ghz in submarines, it was this group I was referring to.
I do know at least two surface boats/ships are on 2.4ghz but no submarines.

My statement was not a criticism but a personal observation

I read these threads on radios because I what to know what is working now and what may be coming in the future.
I have in the last couple of years acquired two Futaba CAP 9 radios and two 75mhz all channel modules, hoping they last me.

However, if a better system comes along, I might make the transition.

I see others wanting systems so they can dive their boats down deep, I prefer running maybe at most, a few inches above the antenna.
Some times I get adventurous and will settle on the bottom because my system can.
3' in clear water where I can see the boat all the way down is as much as I dare.

If the world changed tomorrow and I had to run with 1" of an antenna above the surface, it would not be a problem.
I might build a float system on one of the antennas that would operate the rear planes or sail planes that would keep the boat at that maximum depth.

What I lie best is people who take the time and effort to figure this stuff out and actually test it in the real world.
Thank you, all.

[QuarterMaster]

Ed,

Just call it the "Transit" mast, like on the 1:1 scale 41 for Freedom! Tallest mast we had. Or, make one like the telemetry mast they put on at Cape Canaveral for DASO ops. Ugly, but functional. And, who's to call you on it? I'll back you up!

B^)

Ohhhhh I know that Transit mast well!
On my 1/96th Grant I display the Attack Scope, the ESM, and "THAT ONE" lol!! I remember those late night, actually midday for us since our Capt like to run the boat clock 12 hours out of sync with local time so during the 0600-1200, and the 1200-1800 Watches it was actually dark out for the daily drills and jaunts to PD!

[QuarterMaster]

My statement was not a criticism but a personal observation
.

I forgot the LOL at the end of the following, I was actually smiling when I wrote it. I didn't see it as criticism at all.

That's why I am a guy you do know that runs 2.4gHz.

Mike's a personal hero. Please say "Sub" Ed say's "HI!!" and that Ray Mason, Rich Kohlbrecher, and others here on Long Island miss him.

Didn't realize you ran with them, I do hope to make it out to see you guy's next time I visit my brother in San Diego, which is the closest I'll be able to justify lol!

[salmon]

I will be running with Mike and Will tomorrow morning. The un-official run of the walrus. I will let Mike know you said "Hi"!