Bronco 1/35 Type XXIII kit

[p webster]

Can someone recommend to best ballast system for this sub as I have just got hold of a kit.
I've been looking at the SubDriver s 2 1/2 inch unit but with the Aussie dollar the way it is at present these would be about
$1000 (aust) by the time you add freight. Can any one suggest an alternative system ( I want static diving ability, not dynamic diving) or am I best to wait and order the SubDriver units.
Thanks
Peter Webster

[Guest]

The Type XXIII is quite a petite boat, not very beamy, so apart from the sub driver units, other choices would be a module from Ron Perrott with a pressurized water ballast system. Ron also does some really nice piston based modules, however they're a bit too big for the XXIII, as the minimum diameter is 90mm.

An outfit in the Czech Republic is doing a Co2 based module system suitable for this boat. It's not listed on his website, but you can pen an email to him if interested.

So depending on the system you favour that's a couple of other alternatives.

http://www.rcsubs.co.uk/

http://rcsubs.cz/index.php/divingsystems-2

[redboat219]

Bigdave made a 2.5 uni cylinder for the Type XXIII. It utilizes the Reverse ReCirculating Air Ballast System or RCABS-R.

http://subcommittee.com/forum/showthread.php?32219-Bronco-Type-XXIII-build

[pedro gomez]

Hello.
I'm building one and I use a rolling pump from rc-sub-workshop and a 400 cc plastic bag (used for blood). http://www.rc-sub-workshop.com/Details.aspx?id=200
Is the same system I use in my Marlin, with very good results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU5bU_phH-8

[wingtip]

Ron also does some really nice piston based modules, however they're a bit too big for the XXIII, as the minimum diameter is 90mm

also from rc-sub-workshop they have piston tanks that are listed as 87mm in diameter. Not sure if 3 mm will make a difference for ya but currently its what im trying to use for my project.. Mine is 450ml
photo 1 by Dave Townsend, on Flickr

photo 2 by Dave Townsend, on Flickr

[Guest]

Too big. Beam of a 1/35th XXIII should be about 85mm, inside that will be less, plus allowance for cylinders wall thickness. You may get an Engel tank in there if you use the 12 volt 385 motor version, or you could look at Arc model tanks, which are available in smaller sizes, and are quite a bit cheaper.

[ober freak]

The Engel Tank (12V - 380/385 Motor) needs 77.5 mm

[Guest]

Would be a squeeze, too much I think- you'd be better off with a smaller diameter. e.g. http://www.arkmodel.com/product_info...roducts_id=450

[wingtip]

order at your own risk... i went with the rc sub workshop one after many said the arkmodel company isnt always legit... some people get their stuff and some never get their stuff... i have ordered rc sub workshop items a few times and they are quality items and answer emails and do deliver what you order....

tough isnt it? soooo many decisions and directions you can go lol.... then when you think you have a plan you can scrap it all and start over lol...

[warpatroller]

Andy is correct. All these tank sizes you guys are posting are too large in diameter for the Bronco XXIII hull, especially if you are going to do the Merriman style horizontal cut on the hull to open it up. A 2.75" (70mm) O.D. diameter tube is about the maximum this hull will take.. Even that 77.5mm ArkModel tank is too large..

I have emailed Ron Perrott about his WTC modules, to ask him a few questions about them. I am awaiting his reply.. I find his Twin Piston Tank system to be interesting. His system would work best with a hull that can take a 3.5" cylinder. He might be able to make a version with a 2.5" main cylinder with 1.5" Piston Tanks, but the tanks would need to be very long, probably about 8" in length, for each tank, to get the 13 to 14 fluid ounce ballast capacity required by this model.

I've asked him some questions about his Water Pump based module as well..

[Guest]

I think it highly doubtful Ron wil produce a piston tank module/wtc that small. At present the smallest diameter he produces is 80mm, and that uses a water pump, although I believe an 80mm diameter piston tank module is possibly in the works.

I haven't heard of any plans to produce anything smaller however. The ark model tank is listed as 55mm diameter, so it should fit okay. If you use a method of payment that is protected you should be okay.

Naturally if you invest in a small lathe and learn how to use it, you can make whatever size module and piston tanks you like, and for very little outlay.

Having said that, you say the model requires about 14 fluid ounces of ballast tank volume, which is a lot for a model that size. I'm guessing the thick walled plastic sections add up.

Compressing the air into a small cylinder will mean high cylinder pressures. So you may be better off with an aspirated tank on this model.

[warpatroller]

You are on a roll Andy! You read Ron’s mind..

Here is his, unedited reply, to my mail:

“Thanks for the enquiry about my modules. Sadly the smallest dia I do currently with piston tanks is 100mm dia and the smaller pumped module is 80mm dia. I can make them pretty much any lengh required but at present those are the only diameters.

The Skipjack module is 100mm dia and the tanks are 70mm dia x 100mm long giving around 400cc each. I do intend to look at smaller systems in the fullness of time but it is getting the time that appears to be the main problem.”

Naturally if you invest in a small lathe and learn how to use it, you can make whatever size module and piston tanks you like, and for very little outlay.

Naturally, I have done the first part of that, which is the investing in a small lathe. Trouble is, now I need to learn how to use it before I can make anything with it.. Which means, no boat in the water this Spring either Maybe Spring of 2017 lol..

I have to order a few parts from Sherline to get it fully operational, then learn how to use the thing, before making my own stuff, which I am probably going to have to do. The first part I have to make using the lathe, is a custom metal washer to replace a worn out, out of production part, so I can get my vintage Delta scroll saw running.. The Delta is slated for all custom cutting duties related to getting this model functional. It is a unique scroll saw in that it can run at speeds as low as 50 SPM. Allowing for the cutting of various types of metals, plastics and wood.

Merriman’s 1/96 Sub-Driver will work in the Bronco, but doesn’t really leave room for functional torpedoes (plus that would simply be too easy, without enough suffering involved to get the model in the water). He made a shorter sub driver, specifically for his prototype Bronco XXIII, but to my knowledge, has never made it available. I don't think he ever got around to figuring out what was wrong with his nose diving issue with his prototype. That may be the reason why he never produced the smaller cylinder.

I'm really tempted to go for broke, and order an OTW XXIII, and put Ron’s Twin Piston Tank module in it…. I’ve got a pair of RPM Tech 1/22 scale torpedoes (with their own WTC) that would probably fit the 1/25 OTW hull, just being slightly oversized for the model. Can the OTW hull take that big 100mm (4 inch) Cylinder? That is bigger than OTW’s Modules! I think their Module for that hull is 3.5". That Moebius/Revell Skipjack must have a really cavernous hull!

Problem with these smaller models is, it’s a bitch to fit things inside them. Bigger I think is better and less aggravation.. And the sub will look more impressive, when it's out on a lake.

[sam reichart]

I believe Bob's cylinder for his XXIII is 4" in diameter. Jeff can correct me, if I'm wrong.

[Guest]

Turning/lathework is like all practical skills- expertise comes from a degree of knowledge, and plenty of application.

Nothing in a model submarine of conventional size is too taxing turning wise. In fact most items would be under the category of beginners level turning. If you can machine an endcap for a cylinder, then you can also make a piston tank, as the principles are the same.

Start simple, make a small dynamic diving WTC, but leave space for a tank. When/if you get that working well, think about building a tank for it. It also spreads the cost, not that it will cost much anyway- materials aren't expensive, other peoples skills and time are.

[JWLaRue]

My OTW Type XXIII has a standard diameter OTW dive module in it......110mm OD. That works out to be 4.33071 inches.

Fits just fine!

-Jeff