The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

[pirate]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

I said nothing about ignoring anyone, Myles. You seem to have a way of reading things in between the lines. I gave my opinion, that was that. If there is no longer a printed SCR, there will no longer be a me as member, simple. One less member can't hurt that much.

And as far as reducing the number of printed pieces because more want electronic versions, as Jeff LaRue said, the price per piece goes up. It will get cost prohibitive at I'd say less than around 350 members wanting a printed version. And the club won't be able to charge what it is for membership dues if all that they get is a website and a PDF. And then there's the added task of managing print and digital, and who gets what, and who paid for what. So I think very soon into the process it will need to be decided to go all digital.

Time estimates are what kind of time I spent on things because that's what it took for me personally to be thorough and professional, because that's the kind of business I am in, and I took it seriously. That magazine, and its look, was my reputation as an Art Director going out there. If it takes someone less, good for them. Also as far as the timeline goes, it accounts for the proofers and the production artists real life schedules, giving them a week to do an hour or two of proof reading, and allowing for the production artist to work on the weekends because he has a full time job the rest of the week. This is something that has to be allowed for with volunteers, and even though the production artist gets paid, it's not enough to receive these days for the job other than doing me a favor. For the kind of money the club is paying, this is a "when I can get to it" kinda job for any other professional layout artist.

Some food for thought.

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

I said nothing about ignoring anyone, Myles. You seem to have a way of reading things in between the lines. I gave my opinion, that was that. If there is no longer a printed SCR, there will no longer be a me as member, simple. One less member can't hurt that much.

Pete I was not implying that you were ignoring anyone, I was simply pointing out that there are people how have said to me they would like to see and electronic SCR that is all. I'm not reading anything into anything I am expressing my opinion, If you want to leave then leave, I or no one else will stop you, as a matter of fact, I will hold the door open for you when you leave.

And as far as reducing the number of printed pieces because more want electronic versions, as Jeff LaRue said, the price per piece goes up. It will get cost prohibitive at I'd say less than around 350 members wanting a printed version. And the club won't be able to charge what it is for membership dues if all that they get is a website and a PDF. And then there's the added task of managing print and digital, and who gets what, and who paid for what. So I think very soon into the process it will need to be decided to go all digital.

I would be expect nothing less form the printer, I guess if you want a printed version then you will be willing to pay the price for it.

Time estimates are what kind of time I spent on things because that's what it took for me personally to be thorough and professional, because that's the kind of business I am in, and I took it seriously. That magazine, and its look, was my reputation as an Art Director going out there. If it takes someone less, good for them. Also as far as the timeline goes, it accounts for the proofers and the production artists real life schedules, giving them a week to do an hour or two of proof reading, and allowing for the production artist to work on the weekends because he has a full time job the rest of the week. This is something that has to be allowed for with volunteers, and even though the production artist gets paid, it's not enough to receive these days for the job other than doing me a favor. For the kind of money the club is paying, this is a "when I can get to it" kinda job for any other professional layout artist.

[color=#0000FF]Pete that is the time line you set for yourself and no one was knocking it and no one has ever said you did not take producing the magazine seriously.
Pete I am not saying that you did not take your job seriously I am only agreeing that you did.

I was talking about someone being paid to do a job, not a volunteer, so I guess that makes you guilty of reading things between the lines also, but I do find it strange that Jeff LaRue put the magazine out in 2 weeks, did his job, and gave us a professional quality magazine, Jeff did a good job just as good as you if not better, and in less time, and was as serious about producing the magazine as you. He not only produce the magazine but keep me informed every step of the way, and was not even ask to do so. This is fact and nothing more, To give support to the quality of the magazine there are number of post on the board backing it up. Yes, Jeff did do a darn good job, and in less time than you , He could have simply said the magazine would be published at a later date but her did not.

"and even though the production artist gets paid, it's not enough to receive these days for the job other than doing me a favor. For the kind of money the club is paying, this is a "when I can get to it" kinda job for any other professional layout artist

Pete with the above statement I guess I should ask, are you trying to threaten me? because it sure sounds like one.

There's some food for thought for you


Some food for thought.

Thank you again Myles

[boss subfixer]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

How will this kind of childish banter get someone to volunteer? Answer: it won't!

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

What is the total cost of the SCR publication?

The total cost to publish the SCR for a year is $22,000 dollars and that is cheap compared to some other companies.

Myles

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

[quote]How will this kind of childish banter get someone to volunteer? Answer]

To be honest it is not going to help one bit.

[Guest]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

The total cost to publish the SCR for a year is $22,000 dollars and that is cheap compared to some other companies.

Myles

Does that include the postage? Or is this solely the cost of getting it to print?

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

The total cost to publish the SCR for a year is $22,000 dollars and that is cheap compared to some other companies.

Myles

Does that include the postage? Or is this solely the cost of getting it to print?

Yes this figure includes postage.

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

John,

A cost breakdown of what goes into producing and mailing the SCR isn't really necessary. The only number of relevance is that the SubCommittee pays an art director $1000 per issue. This number is the important one because the art director is the person who actually creates the SCR from the text and photos that we all submit as articles/columns.

Any consideration of distribution via SD card (or equivalent) would need to cover more than the cost of the SD cards themselves. Someone would have to actually put the SCR on each card.....and that costs money too.

-Jeff

[boss subfixer]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

John it would be cheaper still to have it down loadable right from the web site. Having said that I do realize there are still some that are still using dial up. Other problems that could and will come up are cards getting lost and having to be replaced, getting people to mail the cards back to who ever to get the new SCR loaded on it, someone has to do that too. I'm not putting your idea down, at least your throwing ideas out there. Keep thinking and posting.

[pirate]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

My God Myles, are you trying to start a fight?
There was no malice what so ever in my post. I was just explaining why my timeline was as it was, and Jeff's was what it was, and someone else's may be something else. That is all. No criticisms.

I'm not threatening anyone. I'm not threatening to leave to get you to keep producing a magazine, jeez. I'm not threatening you. I'm not threatening Jeff.

Someone asked about polling the members as to what they would want, so I told. That is all. I said count one for keeping the SCR printed, or count one out. That is it. Period. No threats. No back-handed insults. Just facts. I said I only joined 10 years ago or so because of the magazine. I guess if someone asks a question and doesn't like the answer they get, it's an insult? Or a threat? I don't know what kind of world you live in, but it sure is foreign to me.

This kind of treatment is going to make the club even smaller. People Skills Are Us, eh?

Enough said. You won't have to read my opinions any more.

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

Okay...here is a quick thumbnail of what it took of my time to put the March 2010 SCR together:[list]- Solicit articles from members]

This over about a three week time frame.

-Jeff

[pirate]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

Well there you go. Jeff was reviewing the copy for errors, as is his job. Jeff told me he is a technical editor as part of his profession. So I'm positive he proff reads faster than me. (see—proof)
But since I'm an artist, I was reviewing, knit-picking, and changing the layouts and design, and making sure the production artist held to the new design standard that I established.
Jeff may have found an odd line break or two, maybe a page numbered wrong. And all the other typo's and naming corrections. I wouldn't expect him to suggest much to the designer. That is not his interest. But it was about 90% of mine. We are just different.

So people are different, and they do things different. Whoever else takes over will do things different their way. I'm only pointing out that a new person's time may be somewhere in between, or even less. Just don't count on it being exactly the same and then getting discouraged because it is not.

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

My God Myles, are you trying to start a fight?
There was no malice what so ever in my post. I was just explaining why my timeline was as it was, and Jeff's was what it was, and someone else's may be something else. That is all. No criticisms.

I'm not threatening anyone. I'm not threatening to leave to get you to keep producing a magazine, jeez. I'm not threatening you. I'm not threatening Jeff.

Someone asked about polling the members as to what they would want, so I told. That is all. I said count one for keeping the SCR printed, or count one out. That is it. Period. No threats. No back-handed insults. Just facts. I said I only joined 10 years ago or so because of the magazine. I guess if someone asks a question and doesn't like the answer they get, it's an insult? Or a threat? I don't know what kind of world you live in, but it sure is foreign to me.

This kind of treatment is going to make the club even smaller. People Skills Are Us, eh?

Enough said. You won't have to read my opinions any more.

We are just trying to have an open discussion too explore the possibilities of changing the distribution for the SCR as well as change what the SCR looks like .

Thanks again Myles

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

Yup...there you go. I relied on the art director to maintain the style for the SCR. That's what we pay him for.

Changes to the style and enforcing it are the responsibility of the Managing Editor, but should not require the (new) editor to spend a lot of time on it for each issue.

-Jeff

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

John,

Again.....you are only looking at the cost of procuring the cards themselves. The SubCommittee would need to pay for copying the SCR to each card. I can pretty much guarantee that we won't find someone to volunteer to manually copy the SCR to 640 SD cards every quarter.

That aside, focusing on something like an SD card-based delivery is getting ahead of ourselves. This discussion needs to focus on possible future alternatives for the SCR itself. Once the EC makes a decision as to which direction to pursue (i.e. change or no change, then distribution becomes a topic to discuss.

-Jeff