The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

[Guest]

Okay, I'll start the kick-off. I hope this thread will generate some good ideas, and not degenerate into a slanging match, or personal attacks. Also statements along the lines of 'I like to sit down with the report and couple of cold ones' don't really address the issues at stake here.

My thoughts are that the membership as a whole would most likely reject any change to an electronic format. Something this important however would have to be addressed by a written questionnaire sent to all members, and I believe at least 75% would have to respond one way or another to effect change.

Here are my thoughts-

1. Low level of support from the membership regarding article submission.

2. No one wants the job of editor, in a big part I would suspect because of the above. Pete announced he would step down several months ago, yet AFAIK, there has been no interest in the position.

3. Falling membership levels due to increasing costs and quality of content/articles in the report. Some of this is outside the SC's control if the report remains in hardcopy.

4. The huge increase in the past three or four years of third party websites and forums which have stolen a lot of the SC's thunder. Ten years ago the SC was the only English speaking game in town with a significant online presence. Now there are at least a dozen on-line forums which are either submarine exclusive or have submarine sections, even more if you count foreign language forums.

5. Much of what can be achieved in this hobby has already been done. What is left is refinement of existing ideas, and that tends to bring with it complexity. Either that, or we cover old ground.

I haven't stood as editor of the SCR, but I have edited a club publication in the past and am aware of the many problems faced. Going electronic would reduce costs I think, especially for members outside the U.S, however the problems of article submission and keeping the content of the SCR fresh and informative would remain the same.

[JWLaRue]

The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

Let me start what should be a very interesting discussion by stating that an electronic version of the SCR is something that I've wanted to see for a long time. So I freely admit that I have a bias on the subject. That said, this is not something that should be decided without careful thought and planning by the Executive Committee along with strong input from the membership.

So to start. The actual production of an electronic version of the current SCR is a trivial thing. It’s already being done. The magazine is currently sent to the printer as PDF files, where our favorite hobby magazine is printed and sent to each of us. So at one level, sending a PDF document can be easily accomplished.

But I was thinking of an electronic magazine format that was not entirely static. Don’t just use this as another means to deliver the same thing. In other words, why not better exploit the so-called electronic medium to enhance the member’s reading experience? For example, what if that really nice build article also included one or more videos embedded within the article that shows you part of the actual build process...and there were embedded links to other, related material? How about a Local Chapter report that includes video of their local fun run with each member getting a little ‘face time’ before the camera? And do I even need to go down the path of what ads might look like?

However there are some very real concerns that any change in the production and distribution of the SCR needs to address. Here are the ones that immediately come to mind:[list]
• There exists a portion of the membership that cannot, will not, or simply prefers not to use anything other than a printed magazine. The SubCommittee currently does not know how a change to electronic delivery might affect the membership. How does the SC best understand this?
• If the SCR were to go to some electronic form, should there still be a paper version for those who prefer it? How would it be done? What are the impacts of doing that? (e.g. content, printing, etc.)
• What would be a reasonable annual membership rate if the SCR goes paperless? Currently, the majority of the membership dues go directly to printing the magazine and postage charges. We also pay someone to do the actual page layup work.
• How does the SC retain a paid membership for something that can be copied and passed on to anyone with trivial ease. Should the SC consider some form of copy protection? Should the SC care? How about alternative means of generating operating revenue?
• Finally (for now), given the ubiquitous access to the Internet……it needs to be asked]

So what are your thoughts? What other issues are there?

-Jeff

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

I've merged the two "future of the SCR" threads so that we keep things in one place. It looks like we both created the same topic at the same time! LOL!

-Jeff

[Guest]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

It would be interesting to know how much the website costs to run.

[Guest]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

• There exists a portion of the membership that cannot, will not, or simply prefers not to use anything other than a printed magazine. The SubCommittee currently does not know how a change to electronic delivery might affect the membership. How does the SC best understand this?

Send out a written questionnaire. The same questionnaire should be available on line too.

• If the SCR were to go to some electronic form, should there still be a paper version for those who prefer it? How would it be done? What are the impacts of doing that? (e.g. content, printing, etc.)

This is difficult to answer. What would the cost be, could the current print quality be maintained.

• What would be a reasonable annual membership rate if the SCR goes paperless? Currently, the majority of the membership dues go directly to printing the magazine and postage charges. We also pay someone to do the actual page layup work.

Ask this in the questionnaire, but I would think no more than half the current rate for bulk postage in the U.S.

• How does the SC retain a paid membership for something that can be copied and passed on to anyone with trivial ease. Should the SC consider some form of copy protection? Should the SC care? How about alternative means of generating operating revenue?

Will members really bite the hand that feeds? A small amount of passing on would not necessarily be a bad thing in my opinion, providing it isn't habitual- it may whet someones appetite and encourage them to join.

• Finally (for now), given the ubiquitous access to the Internet……it needs to be asked: does the SCR still even need to exist? There is a school of thought that says that the content of the SCR should be built directly into the members-only sections of the web site.

I think this largely hinges on what we have to offer members as an organisation. If the report contains information and articles that are difficult to find elsewhere, then I think it can survive.

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

• If the SCR were to go to some electronic form, should there still be a paper version for those who prefer it? How would it be done? What are the impacts of doing that? (e.g. content, printing, etc.)

This is difficult to answer. What would the cost be, could the current print quality be maintained.

If we're talking about using a printer with the same production requirements, including type of paper, etc......then the cost per printed issue will go up as the quantity printed goes down. How much would depend on the quantity printed. (the fixed production costs need to be spread out over each copy printed)

On the other hand if we're talking about taking the PDF (or whatever) to a local Kinkos for color xerographic copies, the cost would be more containable.

-Jeff

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

• How does the SC retain a paid membership for something that can be copied and passed on to anyone with trivial ease. Should the SC consider some form of copy protection? Should the SC care? How about alternative means of generating operating revenue?

Will members really bite the hand that feeds? A small amount of passing on would not necessarily be a bad thing in my opinion, providing it isn't habitual- it may whet someones appetite and encourage them to join.

What I am thinking here is to get advertising to pay for some of the production costs. If we could rebuild the advertising back up to what it was around 5-7 years ago, I think that would a good chunk of those costs. Printing (assuming that we're talking printing) of any form would be additional cost. Of course the catch here is that over recent years, the SC has had essentially zero success in getting a good advertising manager in place....hence the lack of advertising.

The more that advertising can be used to cover costs, the less the concern over 'illegal' copying becomes.

-Jeff

[t. schulte]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

A question to any one that is also a member at "Sub Pirates" Not me, YET. They charge twenty dollars annually for access to there site. How many members do they have and other than a chat room with build contests and how-to's and bla bla bla, what are the perks? I would be interested in how they can stay afloat. The sub Committee is already doing something similar. With the inclusion of the Report electronically. at a fraction of the cost we should be able to attract alot more people. I think an electronic report is inevitable, unfortunatly but I also think as an institution the SC can survive.
NOT DEAD YET!!! T. Schulte member #0611

[myles yancey]

Re: Future of the SCR

Okay, I'll start the kick-off. I hope this thread will generate some good ideas, and not degenerate into a slanging match, or personal attacks. Also statements along the lines of 'I like to sit down with the report and couple of cold ones' don't really address the issues at stake here.

My thoughts are that the membership as a whole would most likely reject any change to an electronic format. Something this important however would have to be addressed by a written questionnaire sent to all members, and I believe at least 75% would have to respond one way or another to effect change.

Here are my thoughts-

1. Low level of support from the membership regarding article submission.

2. No one wants the job of editor, in a big part I would suspect because of the above. Pete announced he would step down several months ago, yet AFAIK, there has been no interest in the position.

3. Falling membership levels due to increasing costs and quality of content/articles in the report. Some of this is outside the SC's control if the report remains in hardcopy.

4. The huge increase in the past three or four years of third party websites and forums which have stolen a lot of the SC's thunder. Ten years ago the SC was the only English speaking game in town with a significant online presence. Now there are at least a dozen on-line forums which are either submarine exclusive or have submarine sections, even more if you count foreign language forums.

5. Much of what can be achieved in this hobby has already been done. What is left is refinement of existing ideas, and that tends to bring with it complexity. Either that, or we cover old ground.

I haven't stood as editor of the SCR, but I have edited a club publication in the past and am aware of the many problems faced. Going electronic would reduce costs I think, especially for members outside the U.S, however the problems of article submission and keeping the content of the SCR fresh and informative would remain the same.

1. Low level of support from the membership regarding article submission.

This is true but if we go electronic it mite improve the submission of article's to be printed.

2. No one wants the job of editor, in a big part I would suspect because of the above. Pete announced he would step down several months ago, yet AFAIK, there has been no interest in the position.

I think their mite be a little more to this then is being said such as the problem we had previously with certain other people.

3. Falling membership levels due to increasing costs and quality of content/articles in the report. Some of this is outside the SC's control if the report remains in hard copy.

I think this is mainly due to today's economy more than anything else.


4. The huge increase in the past three or four years of third party websites and forums which have stolen a lot of the SC's thunder. Ten years ago the SC was the only English speaking game in town with a significant online presence. Now there are at least a dozen on-line forums which are either submarine exclusive or have submarine sections, even more if you count foreign language forums.

Yes this mite be true but the SC's website is still the most active website out there.

5. Much of what can be achieved in this hobby has already been done. What is left is refinement of existing ideas, and that tends to bring with it complexity. Either that, or we cover old ground.

yes this statement is true, but what is stopping people from submitting their articles on there refinements and improvements in the hobby nothing you are always going to have someone who disagrees with you no matter what.

I haven't stood as editor of the SCR, but I have edited a club publication in the past and am aware of the many problems faced. Going electronic would reduce costs I think, especially for members outside the U.S, however the problems of article submission and keeping the content of the SCR fresh and informative would remain the same.[/quote]

Yes you are correct to the first part of your statement.
Are you saying you mite be interested in being editor of the SC Report, just asking.

thank you
Myles

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

Let me start what should be a very interesting discussion by stating that an electronic version of the SCR is something that I've wanted to see for a long time. So I freely admit that I have a bias on the subject. That said, this is not something that should be decided without careful thought and planning by the Executive Committee along with strong input from the membership.

So to start. The actual production of an electronic version of the current SCR is a trivial thing. It’s already being done. The magazine is currently sent to the printer as PDF files, where our favorite hobby magazine is printed and sent to each of us. So at one level, sending a PDF document can be easily accomplished.

But I was thinking of an electronic magazine format that was not entirely static. Don’t just use this as another means to deliver the same thing. In other words, why not better exploit the so-called electronic medium to enhance the member’s reading experience? For example, what if that really nice build article also included one or more videos embedded within the article that shows you part of the actual build process...and there were embedded links to other, related material? How about a Local Chapter report that includes video of their local fun run with each member getting a little ‘face time’ before the camera? And do I even need to go down the path of what ads might look like?

However there are some very real concerns that any change in the production and distribution of the SCR needs to address. Here are the ones that immediately come to mind]
• There exists a portion of the membership that cannot, will not, or simply prefers not to use anything other than a printed magazine. The SubCommittee currently does not know how a change to electronic delivery might affect the membership. How does the SC best understand this?
• If the SCR were to go to some electronic form, should there still be a paper version for those who prefer it? How would it be done? What are the impacts of doing that? (e.g. content, printing, etc.)
• What would be a reasonable annual membership rate if the SCR goes paperless? Currently, the majority of the membership dues go directly to printing the magazine and postage charges. We also pay someone to do the actual page layup work.
• How does the SC retain a paid membership for something that can be copied and passed on to anyone with trivial ease. Should the SC consider some form of copy protection? Should the SC care? How about alternative means of generating operating revenue?
• Finally (for now), given the ubiquitous access to the Internet……it needs to be asked: does the SCR still even need to exist? There is a school of thought that says that the content of the SCR should be built directly into the members-only sections of the web site.[/list]

So what are your thoughts? What other issues are there?

-Jeff

So to start. The actual production of an electronic version of the current SCR is a trivial thing. It’s already being done. The magazine is currently sent to the printer as PDF files, where our favorite hobby magazine is printed and sent to each of us. So at one level, sending a PDF document can be easily accomplished.

Then this should make it even easier to go electronic, also it seems it would be less work. Jeff is this correct.?

But I was thinking of an electronic magazine format that was not entirely static. Don’t just use this as another means to deliver the same thing. In other words, why not better exploit the so-called electronic medium to enhance the member’s reading experience? For example, what if that really nice build article also included one or more videos embedded within the article that shows you part of the actual build process...and there were embedded links to other, related material? How about a Local Chapter report that includes video of their local fun run with each member getting a little ‘face time’ before the camera? And do I even need to go down the path of what ads might look like?

Now that could would be great if it could be accomplished videos in the SCR that is thinking outside the box good suggestion.
However there are some very real concerns that any change in the production and distribution of the SCR needs to address. Here are the ones that immediately come to mind]

•There exists a portion of the membership that cannot, will not, or simply prefers not to use anything other than a printed magazine. The SubCommittee currently does not know how a change to electronic delivery might affect the membership. How does the SC best understand this?

Well for those people that want a hard copy then we give them one, they just have to pay for it like they do now, and they would have to meet the rising cost to cover their needs.
The people that want to go electronic well they would see some type of dues reduction because they went electronic. this is just my opinion.


•If the SCR were to go to some electronic form, should there still be a paper version for those who prefer it? How would it be done? What are the impacts of doing that? (e.g. content, printing, etc.)

Yes as I stated above.

•What would be a reasonable annual membership rate if the SCR goes paperless? Currently, the majority of the membership dues go directly to printing the magazine and postage charges. We also pay someone to do the actual page layup work.

This would requirer a little research, but this also go's along with one of my above statements about the member's who want to have just a hard copy.

•How does the SC retain a paid membership for something that can be copied and passed on to anyone with trivial ease. Should the SC consider some form of copy protection? Yes Should the SC care? Yes How about alternative means of generating operating revenue? We have tried that with a raffle and what we got in return was a bunch of greif from a select few people we can try again if members would like to.

•Finally (for now), given the ubiquitous access to the Internet……it needs to be asked]

I am not sure how to answer this one so I will let someone else try.

So what are your thoughts? What other issues are there?
Just my two cents worth for what it is worth. Myles

-Jeff[/quote]

[Guest]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

How will an electronic format improve the volume of contributions?

With regard to the SC being the most active website, I wasn't really referring to this. I was pointing out that information can be gained readily and easily (and usually free) at these forums, negating the need for a magazine. I've seen a lot of build threads around, including on this site, that would make good articles in the report, but never feature.

The advantage a forum has over a magazine is instant feedback, discussion and sharing of knowledge- the builder can find out ways of doing things better. A magazine article is a one way process of knowledge, unless readers take the time to contact the author.

I wasn't volunteering my services for editor, I already act as Sub Committee GB chapter contact, Fox Schedule editor and organise the London based Dive-in pool runs. I would do a poor job if I loaded my plate any more- I know my limits.

[myles yancey]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

How will an electronic format improve the volume of contributions?

With regard to the SC being the most active website, I wasn't really referring to this. I was pointing out that information can be gained readily and easily (and usually free) at these forums, negating the need for a magazine. I've seen a lot of build threads around, including on this site, that would make good articles in the report, but never feature.

The advantage a forum has over a magazine is instant feedback, discussion and sharing of knowledge- the builder can find out ways of doing things better. A magazine article is a one way process of knowledge, unless readers take the time to contact the author.

I wasn't volunteering my services for editor, I already act as Sub Committee GB chapter contact, Fox Schedule editor and organise the London based Dive-in pool runs. I would do a poor job if I loaded my plate any more- I know my limits.

How will an electronic format improve the volume of contributions?

Well I think that it would allow people to go back and edit the work they did on the website and add thing's that they did not put in their original article or forgot to to put in the original article at the time it was written.

With regard to the SC being the most active website, I wasn't really referring to this. I was pointing out that information can be gained readily and easily (and usually free) at these forums, negating the need for a magazine. I've seen a lot of build threads around, including on this site, that would make good articles in the report, but never feature.

Well that is a problem that only the membership itself can control it is out of the SCR's control, it is one of the things that members contiuealy complain about but they keep doing it anyway

The advantage a forum has over a magazine is instant feedback, discussion and sharing of knowledge- the builder can find out ways of doing things better. A magazine article is a one way process of knowledge, unless readers take the time to contact the author.

I agree with with that, but it dose not stop you from providing a complete article so the read's do not have to read one post after another.

I wasn't volunteering my services for editor, I already act as Sub Committee GB chapter contact, Fox Schedule editor and organise the London based Dive-in pool runs. I would do a poor job if I loaded my plate any more- I know my limits.[/quote]

I was just asking to be sure

[JWLaRue]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

So to start. The actual production of an electronic version of the current SCR is a trivial thing. It’s already being done. The magazine is currently sent to the printer as PDF files, where our favorite hobby magazine is printed and sent to each of us. So at one level, sending a PDF document can be easily accomplished.

Then this should make it even easier to go electronic, also it seems it would be less work. Jeff is this correct.?

Assuming that the same production quality is maintained, the only thing this reduces or eliminates is the cost of printing and postage. All the work of getting us to a set of PDF files remains the same. Remember, in this case I am only referring to taking the SCR as it exists today and having it made available to the members electronically.

What it would take in terms of resources and costs to move to a more media rich SCR is something that needs to be explored.

-Jeff

[Rogue Sub]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

Just a few comments

The SC membership has actually been on the rise as of Dec last year. With a total of about 640 paid members. We are even getting many members back that we had previously lost.

It is my personal opinion that this club will eventually have to go electronic as well. Doing this could stream line so many of the time consuming processes in the SC and remove lots of costs. If the paypal system could be set up to give automatic access to payees with out the need to file each one individually people would get instant access.

I also love Jeffs ideas for the electronic version with enhanced feature. I think that would make an amazing report.

Of course all this will still require us to have an editor

[bcliffe]

Re: The Future of the SubCommittee Report?

But I was thinking of an electronic magazine format that was not entirely static. Don’t just use this as another means to deliver the same thing. In other words, why not better exploit the so-called electronic medium to enhance the member’s reading experience? For example, what if that really nice build article also included one or more videos embedded within the article that shows you part of the actual build process...and there were embedded links to other, related material?

+1

Jeff I must admit I agree with you on this.... I personally have not renewed my membership because I find the material here in the forums and SCR reports as getting old. I personally learn more about model building by hanging around my local model boat club then the material I am finding here.

I do recognize that publishing/editing the SCR and keeping the website up to date is a lot of work, and I assume other folks out there are like me, a real time crunch between work, family, and other things in life.

Online is the way to go in my mind, that is where the next generation lives. Personally my belief is the concept and know how of buildings models is becoming more and more of a lost art.

So how do we attack the 2 problems above ... get all the SCR historic info on line and convert the web site to a social media site. There is a lot of open source software packages like Drupel ... that do both social media and content media. (Using the above in another project I am working on)

You need to make the users own the content, and collobrate on the material that is fit for publication.

Drupal is neat where there is specific software components that allow the users to create a book, that could be published. So you could get the best of both worlds, flexable online content that can be used to genererate content/articles for a quartlery publication for those that are not online.

Please understand I am just using Drupal as an example, there are other solutions out there ... but I do think if the hobby is actually going to survive to the next generation ... things need to change.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers
BC