To all the members that left the SubCommittee

[slats]

Andy the clear answer from

Andy the clear answer from me is I would not be looking to the SC for that. I value your input and accept your positions.

Myles, you had the courage to ask a public question - it seems that you don't have the same to accept a public answer.....why am I not surprised. Pehaps nothing indeed has changed.

If you don't value the opinions of a longstanding 10+ year PAID member - don't ask the question.

I think I gave you a fair and honest opinion of my experience as to why I quit. I have done so without personally shelacking anyone, or without being rude. I also gave you some constructive insight to improvements. Yet your attempt at a smug reply demonstrates contempt towards the problem you seemed initially keen to solve. What was repeated word for word anyway? We have a quote button that allows people to do that. As far as anyone hanging themselves - keep on ignoring these longstanding issues as irrelevant and see ultimately where the SC will end up.

A few people have PM'd me to say would I help out - was considering it right up until your post demonstrated that nothing has changed with SC management attitudes.

There are some great people / members in the SC and I wish it well for its future.

[myles yancey]

Andy the clear answer from

Andy the clear answer from me is I would not be looking to the SC for that. I value your input and accept your positions.

Myles, you had the courage to ask a public question - it seems that you don't have the same to accept a public answer.....why am I not surprised. Pehaps nothing indeed has changed.

The problem your facing is simple the same words you wrote have been stated word for word to me.
I find that very very odd
I take verything someone tells meas being a possible good answer to the questions I asked, I would not have ask them if I did not want to know what people have to say.

John I think you are protesting to much.

If you don't value the opinions of a longstanding 10+ year PAID member - don't ask the question.

Jonh with all do respest your either a member or not which is it, one minute your not and now your saying your a 10 yr paid member make up your mind.

I think I gave you a fair and honest opinion of my experience as to why I quit. I also gave you some constructive insight to improvements. Yet your attempt at a smug reply demonstrates contempt towards the problem you seemed initially keen to solve.

John it seems you responded to something that had nothing to do with you. why would you do that, only if you had some idea as to what I was refering to, anyone else would have just simply said what is he talking about? Like I said give a person enough rope and they will hang themselves.

John with respest to you I am not going to get into a pissing match with you, this is not the time or the place for it.

With all do respest to you, you have basically said you really have no need of the SC and that is your right and I respect your choice.

Myles

[slats]

Myles just to clear the

Myles just to clear the air.
I was a paid member of over 10 years. I am no more and I left. if you read my intial posts carefully you would know that.

I have no idea as to the "word for word" bit means.

[slats]

John it seems you responded

John it seems you responded to something that had nothing to do with you. why would you do that, only if you had some idea as to what I was refering to, anyone else would have just simply said what is he talking about? Like I said give a person enough rope and they will hang themselves.

Myles

Myles what exactly are you saying?
As someone who quit the SC after 10 years membership I do think this question is relevant for me to comment on?????

J

[peter w]

Myles

I left the SC

Myles

I left the SC about 2 to 3 years ago, at the time the only thing that was exclusive to a uk member was really the SCR, at that time the SCR was having a few problems, Jeff left and in my opinion his shoes were hard to fill the delivery was getting later and later and the content was not really of interrest to me personally. The first issue I received was by way of an introduction and was the December 2001 ( the first ever colour issue), it was exactly the thing I needed at the time to encourage me further into this hobby which I love. In the main at the time financial issues were the reason I didn't renew my membership, Money was that tight!. Then with children my Subs got put on the back burner and it is only recently that I have started to get projects going again but again money is a barrier and most of my models are lacking only the RC element due to lack of funds.

I do also know of another member who left due to finance, our dues were a lot of money to pay for 4 copies of the SCR.

I would come back if and when money allows I would also be interested to see the difference in the SCR. As Big Dave has mentioned elsewhere having a hard copy of the SCR is the only way to enjoy it.

I do not believe in being political, I have had other hobbies in my life ruined by political feuds, and I know some of the posts on this thread have got close but this will only lead to the hobby suffering.

All the best,

Peter. EX-Member 2731 ( I think)

[dhffr]

Not a member but have

Not a member but have submitted several build threads over the years and many of you have bought the hulls I built. There is one thing that has changed since the first reports..... The internet.

At first, there were only a few places to get info. SCR, Scale Ship Modeler, and a few other areas. (That's how I built my first static sub at age 19)



Now, you can find almost any information or receive any type of sub help for free via the forums. I recently canceled all paid forum memberships. (including pirates) If I need help, I'll ask and if you want to see one of my builds, drop me an e-mail.

Darrin H

[pirate]

Just a little clarity on

Just a little clarity on the SCR banter. When I took over as editor two years ago I was encouraged to keep a nice balance of articles to satisfy the whole gambit of interests SC members have. In each issue I try to have an article on R/C builds, Fun Run or regatta events (that includes British, Spanish, Australian and U.S.—which there has been coverage published for each wehn articles were submitted—no one was rejected), technical/new ideas, static builds, new products, sub books. And then there's the FOX Schedule where any SubRon group can submit info on the going-ons in their local group. And to get more of an international flavor I solicited Chris Chambers to do a column called "Just one Brit's View" so we could get more input from outside the U.S. And he was most generous in contributing. Any of you willing to produce material like this from Australia or elsewhere would have been welcomed whole heartedly, and still will.

There were some problems with previous editors in not getting issues together in a timely manner, but again, these were only volunteers with personal lives and paying jobs that have to come first. None of these people are working for you. And Jeff LaRue got the SCR turned around back to publishing on a regular schedule and delivery just before I took over. Under my watch the magazine has been delivering very close to the first of the month for each issue, many even earlier. Until just recently, the last two issues, they were all on time or ahead of time. The last two issues were late, but by no more than two weeks. That was because receiving new articles from members was sorely lacking in quantity to fill the book. I had to reprint material from other sources which allow that—primarily the U.S. Navy.

And now the pressures of real life are causing me to call it quits. As I said, it's a volunteer gig. Well, I've volunteered for two years, now it needs to be someone elses turn. And after giving notice of my leaving after the December issue this year in my letters from the editor in the last tow issues, no one has stepped forward to take over. How about one of you from Australia take over.

Again, all of this is dependent on contributions from the membership.

Also, every one of these reasons for leaving was of a selfish reason as to what the SubCommittee wasn't giving them. For a club to survive it needs its members to give to the club as well, then we all benefit. And don't tell me that you submitted articles to me and I wouldn't publish them. I've published at least three articles from Australian members—one on the last Aussie SubRegatta, one on the Oberon and one on a submarine museum. I must say, the submissions from the overseas members are most interesting and add a nice voice to the magazine. This September issue will have one from our British friends on their subregatta and one from a Spanish member on bow thrusters.

It's good to hear your input. If you want things to be different then you've got to do something about it. There's no government entity that will step in to make it happen. It has to come from the members. We just had Executive Committee elections last winter and there was one candidate for President and none for Treasurer. That was your chance. As many of you are saying, with the internet and email now, what's stopping you?

Pete

[robert f.]

Now, you can find almost

Now, you can find almost any information or receive any type of sub help for free via the forums.

And precisely that is one of the main problems. It's not free, or to put it more correctly, IT'S NOT WITHOUT COST!

The cost of keeping the SubCommittee website and its forums on the Internet and maintaining it is paid for by the members! If every member of the SubCommittee would take the free-riding attitude, both the Committee and its website would be history in no-time. In fact, that's already happened to some paid forums.

While I fully understand this free-rider attitude from an individual point of view, it also is a crucial argument for me to want to have as much of the SC website as possible put in a "members only"- section (with the exception of the SubRon info for "recruiting" purposes). If you want the facility, help maintain it!

I also fully agree with Pete's remarks above. Don't ask what your SubCommittee can do for you, but ask what you can do for your SubCommittee!

Sorry to have been slightly off-topic (it's a thread for former members, after all), but I just had to.

Robert

[scott t]

Now that is something to

Now that is something to put on a banner at the top of the page or maybe a crawling message.

Don't ask what your SubCommittee can do for you, but ask what you can do for your SubCommittee!

I don't like the idea of putting most of the SubCommittee behind an
"Iron Curtain". Are we so pennyless that we need to make this change
to raise money?

Lets spend our time recruiting articles for the SCR and members to our
hobby.
If we don't understand a need for articles tell us! We are mostly men in
the hobby who by history are thick between the ears. How often does
your wife remind you to do things?

Required before December one Editor
Required articles for SCR (Can you give us a list of article titles in the
que to remind us we are running low?)
Required give along with the take.

Scott

[pirate]

Clarification: I mentioned that Jeff

Clarification: I mentioned that Jeff LaRue got the SCR back on schedule just before I took over as editor. I had forgotten how long it had been since the editor before him had such troubles. Jeff took back control as editor 6 or 7 years before I became editor, and he had it back delivering promptly for most of that time. Sorry for the confusion.

Point is, you guys dropped out when things were not good for about 1 or 2 years, but they have gotten much better with the SubCommittee Report since then. Those who stuck it out have been receiving a top-notch magazine for less than something of it's size and quality off a newstand—plus personal web pages on the SC site and club fun runs.

Pete

[JWLaRue]

Amen to that, Pete. Over

Amen to that, Pete. Over the years I have had folks like the AMA and RCHTA ask me how it is possible for an organization of our size to produce such a top-notch magazine. It is definitely something for the membership to be proud of....but as Pete has reminded us, it takes the membership to make it happen, not a paid staff.

-Jeff

[robert f.]

Scott T wrote]
Now that is

[b]Scott T wrote]

Now that is something to put on a banner at the top of the page or maybe a crawling message

Be my guest! Of course, I only paraphrased one of John F. Kennedy's famous statements, as most of you will realize.

But, Scott, I do think that your using the term "Iron Curtain" when commenting on my views on reserving part of the website for SC members (even if you put it between quotation marks) is both a bit misplaced and a bit misleading.
Misplaced, because the term referred to a giant dictatorship with all its horrors, secret police and suppression. Which is why I think this term should not be used so casually.
Misleading, as that connection may throw readers off the track of the point I was trying to make. So, let me explain my views a bit further.

The posting I reacted to in the first place clearly shows, in my opinion anyway, one of the main issues an organization like the SC faces. The issue of the calculating individual. Why pay for information (on model subs in our case) if you can get it for free? Never mind that other people do pay through membership fees for making that information available (via an organization, via the SCR, via a website, via anything), that's their problem/choice.

But for an organization like the SC, having (enough) members is a necessary condition for its very existence. And since the number of members is not a constant value (if only because people pass away sooner or later), attracting new members and trying to keep the existing members in is a continuing process. Nothing new here.

So, if an organization wants to keep its members on board for as long as possible, those members must have an incentive to both come in and stay. Being a member must give you an advantage over non-members. Member's privileges, in other words. I think that, in the SC's case, the information that can be found on the website should be one of those privileges. If not, the free-rider attitude will, in my opinion, be a major cause of dwindling SC membership.

And of course. nobody is coerced into joining the SC. But people would be expected to make their own personal consideration. Do they regard the SC membership worthwhile, given that they will then have access to all the information available, or do they decide that they can live without it?
Either way, it's their choice. The consequences will then be theirs, too, unlike in the current situation. No more free-riding on other people's fees and effort. Not because the SC is penniless (yet), but to ensure its future.

Finally, I really appreciate this exchange of views, for a number of reasons. But I suggest that, should we want to continue it, we should do so in another thread or by pm. After all, this is not what Myles set the thread up for.... Sorry again!


Robert

[gerwalk]

But, Scott, I do think

But, Scott, I do think that your using the term "Iron Curtain" when commenting on my views on reserving part of the website for SC members (even if you put it between quotation marks) is both a bit misplaced and a bit misleading.
Misplaced, because the term referred to a giant dictatorship with all its horrors, secret police and suppression. Which is why I think this term should not be used so casually.

Robert

Well, another significant difference is that behind the real "iron curtain" there was a big deal of activity.

[casey thrower]

One suggestion I mentioned a

One suggestion I mentioned a long time ago would be to place one old how to article in the magazine each time it comes out. There are many to choose from that would go a long way to help the newbie get into the hobby. I let my membership expire because I just got busy and haven't been active, but I plan on renewing soon.