Special Edition SCR

[myles yancey]

Tom,

I believe you are right....it's

Tom,

I believe you are right....it's definitely been a while ago. It was probably when Bobbie V. was the treasurer too.

As I recall the 503-C not (or is it "non"?) for profit status means that the IRS treats any monies taken in not through membership dues very differently. I was told that this was a key reason for not pursuing selling the SCR at hobby shops, etc.

Perhaps a conversation with a tax attorney might be in order as part of any potential change in the paid distribution of the SCR to make sure that the organization is following the current tax laws.

-Jeff

Jeff this is a very interesting point however you may find under our original charter we are able to raise these monie's, we may need to look at section 501(c)(7) of the IRS regs, to see how we are affected.
I could be all wet behind the ears but just to besure look at it yourself, and let us know.

Myles

[JWLaRue]

Jeff this is a very

Jeff this is a very interesting point however you may find under our original charter we are able to raise these monie's, we may need to look at section 501(c)(7) of the IRS regs, to see how we are affected.
I could be all wet behind the ears but just to besure look at it yourself, and let us know.

Myles

Myles,

I do not know what you mean when you refer to "our original charter". I do know that this organization is governed by the formal, legal incorporation done in the Sate of Connecticut......known as the Articles of Incorporation.

Other than stating "1.3 The SubCommittee is a non profit mutual benefit organization, incorporated in the State of Connecticut.".....there is nothing in the Articles of Incorporation that directly speaks to the benefits and/or restrictions of "The SubCommittee, Inc." You have a copy of the AoI.....do you see anything different?

If the SubCommittee wishes to gain a further understanding of what the 503-c status means, may I suggest that the Executive Committee do the necessary research or consulting with a tax attorney?

-Jeff

[myles yancey]

Jeff this is a very

Jeff this is a very interesting point however you may find under our original charter we are able to raise these monie's, we may need to look at section 501(c)(7) of the IRS regs, to see how we are affected.
I could be all wet behind the ears but just to besure look at it yourself, and let us know.

Myles

Myles,

I do not know what you mean when you refer to "our original charter". I do know that this organization is governed by the formal, legal incorporation done in the Sate of Connecticut......known as the Articles of Incorporation.

Other than stating "1.3 The SubCommittee is a non profit mutual benefit organization, incorporated in the State of Connecticut.".....there is nothing in the Articles of Incorporation that directly speaks to the benefits and/or restrictions of "The SubCommittee, Inc." You have a copy of the AoI.....do you see anything different?

If the SubCommittee wishes to gain a further understanding of what the 503-c status means, may I suggest that the Executive Committee do the necessary research or consulting with a tax attorney?

-Jeff

Thank you Jeff

as of Friday the following information was provided to me
research started with our Tax number in order to be sure we were looking into the correct organization.

Based on our Tax Number
it is assigned to thre following [ Subcommitte, INC. as a non-profit Corporation ]

under section 501(c)(7) The organization is permitted to receive up to 35 percent of its gross receipts, including investments income, from sources outside of its membership without losing its Tax-exempt status. Of the 35 precent, not more than 15 precent of the gross receipts may be derived from the use of the clubs facilities or services by the general Public.
Income in excess of thes limits may jeopardize our continued Tax-exempt status.
this is direct from the IRS itself.

Myles

[pirate]

"15 precent of the gross

"15 precent of the gross receipts may be derived from the use of the clubs facilities or services by the general Public."

So, does "use of the club's...services" mean the provision of the SubCommittee Report?

If so, that would mean we could raise a maximum of $2,880 (15% over our current gross which is now about $19,200) from sales of the SCR. I'm sure that would include back issues as well, so you'd have to subtract any profit from that. That would be 192 issues of new SCRs at the cover price of $15. But then, if you could sell 192 issues, what's to say you couldn't sell more, and how do you cut it off? Or do you just donate the extra money to something? Maybe start a SubCommittee scholarship only available to members' children under 21, or members under 21.

But then you're back to HAVING to make sure there's ORIGINAL material to publish every issue, on time, every quarter, rain or shine, fog or snow. That's a tall order for a volunteer. Or to even get a volunteer to do that. And for the last two issues I had to pull articles from U.S. Navy pubs to fill the magazine because there weren't enough sent in from members. Oooh. And would this even bring in new members? Or just raise money?

You know, I bet we could raffle off a completed and running R/C sub for more than that. I bet Caswell, Inc. could donate one of those turn-key subs of theirs and just write it off on their taxes as an advertising expense. At $10 a ticket that's only 288 tickets. We could run it through the website and PayPal. We could give the winner a year's subscription of the SCR too. How many of the non-members on this site and other visitors would go for that? Can you raffle something on Ebay? What would their cut be? Would THIS bring in new members, or just raise money?

What's our goal again?

[pirate]

It's done all the time.

It's done all the time. But you have to have enough income to do so.
We pay our Production Designer to do most of the SCR layouts already. I do some of it, and make a lot of the corrections too, but I don't get paid.

Most charities have entire staffs on salary. That's nothing new. Makes taxes a lot more complicated though. We'd have to hire an accountant too.

[Rogue Sub]

look at the good will.

look at the good will. They people inside those places are all on the books.

[kazzer]

You know, I bet we

You know, I bet we could raffle off a completed and running R/C sub for more than that. I bet Caswell, Inc. could donate one of those turn-key subs of theirs and just write it off on their taxes as an advertising expense.

Dream on Pete! You want me to donate a turnkey boat, probably $1000 worth to raffle to a very small audience that already exists, in the vague hope THAT will entice half a dozen new members? And then place the taxation burden on my accountant? I am 'almost' lost for words.
Try OTW (his boats are more expensive) or Big Dave.

What's our goal again?

Exactly. I thought the plan here was to have NO PLAN?
Why have you all suddenly put a 'taxation' fence around yourselves? Surely, if you do the despicable thing and actually make a profit, the worst thing that can happen is the SC will have to pay some tax? Seems reasonable to me (join the club).

But all this seems irrelevant if you aren't going to produce an SCR for lack of an editor etc.

Perhaps the answer is to can the SCR in a paper format. It's a nice idea, but for 500 members it seems hardly worth all the effort. The SC certainly can't afford it as the SCR swallows almost all the revenue. An electronic version (Kevin's concept) would cost little and if subscriptions continued at the current rate, the coffers would soon swell. However $36 membership seems a lot of money these days. I wonder how many more people would 'join' if there were no membership dues? After all, running a web page forum costs almost nothing, so why all the 'fees'?

From a potential advertiser's view, this is looking less attractive all the time.

[Guest]

I lofted the idea of

I lofted the idea of an electronic SCR a long time ago, but it got thrown out.

Similar ideas were raised within the AMS, a much smaller organisation with about 45 members (was at 120 in it's heyday), which was facing similar cash flow problems and lack of material from the membership for their magazine 'In Depth'. The members voted by quite a majority to retain the printed format.

For some reason that escapes me, folk like something glossy and tangible.

For me, the only viable way you're going to get larger numbers into this hobby is to get good venues and events going and publicise them well in the mainstream modelling press.

With easy build, inexpensive kits like Thunder tiger's Neptune and Ark Models Dragonshark available, this hobby is now more accessible than that was a few years ago.What puts alot of people off is a good facility to run them at.

[ojm]

As a Hobbyist (Who has

As a Hobbyist (Who has not subscribed to SC)
There is a major difference between the Manufactures who DO pay taxes and the "CLUB" that has ENTHUSIASTS that avoid taxes.

...A history lesson...."The Boston Tea Party"

The U.S. abbsolved themselfs from British rule..because they did not accept British Taxes!..

All you lot are doing is bitching about your own TAX rules!

...all i can say is "Offshore Accounts!"

Surely you can sort SOMETHING out?

[myles yancey]

People you are getting off

People you are getting off topic please remain on topic

[hampboats]

Just my thoughts - sorry for the ramble

I avoid using the internet for somewhat in-depth discussions but I wanted to add this piece of information in hopes that it might help. It is my firm belief, if you want to know what road to take, look at where you started and what you intended to do.

This is just my opinion!!! The SC in its creation was an organization whose basic goals were to support static model submarine building. I don’t know if Marshal Clark started the organization but he was running it when I first met him. A super guy and my hats off to him for what he did. It was during this same time that I had started the Scale Ship Modelers Association. At that time, we had several R/C submariners on our roster. They included such submarine greats like Skip Asay, Jim Wheeler, and Mike Dory just to name a few. I have the highest regards for all of these gentlemen. In an effort to better serve this faction, we created Sub Pac. I appointed Kerry Addington as Director. As this group grew, I recognized that their needs were specific and had great potential for growth. We had two very well attended regattas, one in New Jersey, and one in San Diego. It was in San Diego that I met with Marshall and we decided that the best route for Sub Pac was to move the membership into the Subcommittee. If you look in one of the membership years, you will see a big bump in membership in one year. Not everyone was happy with that decision, but as it turned out it was the right thing to do.

The goal at that time was clear. 1) We would serve all aspects of the submarine hobby, both r/c and static. 2) We are reliant on the membership to convey the message of what this hobby is all about. 3) Our main vehicle for communication with the membership is through the SCR. It needed to be first class. 4) No one should put there own personal needs ahead of the organization. Meaning, when you volunteer for the task of helping it is for the benefit of the organization not yourself. 5) Vendors are critical to the success of the organization. This hobby is often too complicated for the novice modeler, they will need vendors who can not only supply products but support the product as well as help the modelers. 6) A membership that does not support its vendors will suffer. 7) A vendor that does not support the membership will suffer. And last of all, “this is just a hobby”, it is meant to be fun.

You may not agree with all of the above, it may or may not help and maybe I should keep my opinions to myself. But, this I do know from my experience in the various organizations that I have been involved in, 1) don’t kill good ideas, 2) don’t discourage those who have the ideas from presenting them by making it difficult to get consensus, 3) sometimes you have to go by faith that you are doing the right things and “just do it”

The original idea is a good one. I will help if it can. I personally believe that it is my goal to grow the organization. I carry flyers with me for both my club and SC. I encourage people to visit the website. I would like to see a “sub site” (excuse the pun) that links to the SC site or have a link on the SC site that would have a monitor and be exclusive for “new modelers or novices”. Often time, people are uneasy about asking questions because they get nine different answers. I am not saying that they shouldn’t know about the various options. They need to have the options presented in a manner that gives the information without the personal preference added in and as Skip would say, with the “KISS principle” included. Maybe someone could monitor the site and with the help of the membership reply with the “Best” answer(s) or have a stock of answers ready. Just my thoughts from my own experience.

[tmsmalley]

Sweet. Nice job putting it

Sweet. Nice job putting it in a nutshell, Dave.

Dave is being too modest with his explanation of his involvement in the SubCommittee - HE is one of the greats, and works behind the scenes. You never see him sitting down at a SubRegatta and you never met a nicer guy.

He takes part in all the SubRon6 runs and answers all questions with great patience and cheer about his brilliant subs (he's a super smart guy), and not a hint of ego. He just wants everyone to build a model sub.



Matt Munger (lft) Dave Hampton (rt) discuss the ballast system in Dave's boat.

[tmsmalley]

Sorry - it's a Finnish

Sorry - it's a Finnish WWII sub "Vessiko".

[pirate]

So do us old members.

So do us old members. That's a tall order. Not a lot of guys building their own WTCs, but hey out there, if you got 'em, smoke 'em.

[subdude]

Pete,

I must respectfully disagree. There's

Pete,

I must respectfully disagree. There's a whole bunch of folks who build their own watertights, they just don't blow their own horns much. Look to Mike Dory, Skip Asay, Mike Shubar, Dave Welch, Don May, George Protchenko, Larry Kuntz, Will Oudmayer, Tom Anderson, Art Broder, Andre Burgess, Erich Kloss, Rick Galinson, Rick Teskey, and myself just to name a few off the top of my head. (apologies to all who I neglected to list)

The information is there, but I agree that we need to keep it at the forefront. We had a beginners column in The Report for a while, perhaps it's time for it to make a re-appearance?

Jim