Kit advice for a beginner -please

[bonky]

Hi everyone! I've just joined - I normally model 16mm garden steam locos but fancy returning to boat/ship construction. I have 2 projects in my mind's eye.

First, I wish to build a sub. I have in my mind a Robbe u47 (with or without the Engels piston kits to convert into a static diver), a Seawolf (same stable) or the more expensive Engels Layfayette - which is a static diver). I have trawled the net and visited the subcommittee site and others, but the more advice I can get the better. Which of these (or others...) would suit me best?
A few days later ...
Originally Posted by steamboatmodel
Hi Richard,
How about a K Class sub. ?
Regards,
Gerald

Hi, such as ? Do you mean like the Akula ... remember I'm new to all this and need a gentle introduction to the BlackArts. I originally wanted to model a British sub but paradoxically ended up being fascinated by the u-boats. It's their mix of technical brilliance and their sinister, almost evil, appearance - the same feeling of moral and aesthetic abhorrence I feel for alligators, that I find/found fascinating.
I then realised that unless I went for the Robbe u-47 - which is a dynamic dive model (which I didn't want) I would need an all-in-one kit - hence the cheaper end of the Engel range.

Any advice would be welcome.
Thanks
Richard

[Rogue Sub]

So what you are saying

So what you are saying is that you are looking for a novice level, large size, u boat?

Kevin

[bonky]

advice for beginners please

So what you are saying is that you are looking for a novice level, large size, u boat?

Kevin

Yes, I suppose so; this will be my first sub build although I have some experience in 16mm steam locos and carriages etc. I scratch-built a yacht some 20 years ago, so I think I could handle 'advanced novice' boats. Although I like the look of the u-boat KITS, I've been recommended to go an Engels 'Lafayette' as my 'starter', so, as you can see, I'm quite flexible/plastic! I considered the Robbe u-47 for some time - especially as there's so much help on the web, but the static diving conversion appeared a little hard and I preferred getting all/most of the 'bits' in one go.

Thanks,

Richard

[mike dory]

fiirst kit sub's

Bonky - Welcome abord, You will want to join the Subcommittee and ask for there C.D. on back issues. Lots of great stuff on building your first boat there.. Next you need to find a local group of Sub guys to run with and ask questions of ect. You also need to start thinking about what you have to transport your boat safely ( 7 ft. long U-boats don't fit well in the back seat of a Honda). Also give some thought to where you will most likely be running your boat.. (is the water 3 Ft. deep or 35 ft.deep.) what about the sea bed, are we talking about running in a pool or some where that as sea grass, and maybe a rockie bottom. How's your skill leval with working fiberglass . Ballast tanks types. There is five or six differnt types in use today. Some use high pressure CO2 systems some a low pressure (Propel) system There's at least three differnt types of pump systems that I can think of. Which of these systems do you feel comfortable with. All of these issues should be looked at before you look at which boat kit you whish to build. Between the Subcommittee report and the guy's here, you will be better able to answer the question which is a good choice of a kit for you. Best Wishes .... Mike Dory

[bonky]

Re: first kit for subs

Bonky - Welcome abord, You will want to join the Subcommittee and ask for there C.D. on back issues. Lots of great stuff on building your first boat there.. Next you need to find a local group of Sub guys to run with and ask questions of ect. You also need to start thinking about what you have to transport your boat safely ( 7 ft. long U-boats don't fit well in the back seat of a Honda). Also give some thought to where you will most likely be running your boat.. (is the water 3 Ft. deep or 35 ft.deep.) what about the sea bed, are we talking about running in a pool or some where that as sea grass, and maybe a rockie bottom. How's your skill leval with working fiberglass . Ballast tanks types. There is five or six differnt types in use today. Some use high pressure CO2 systems some a low pressure (Propel) system There's at least three differnt types of pump systems that I can think of. Which of these systems do you feel comfortable with. All of these issues should be looked at before you look at which boat kit you whish to build. Between the Subcommittee report and the guy's here, you will be better able to answer the question which is a good choice of a kit for you. Best Wishes .... Mike Dory

Thanks Mike, my local boating pool (Millhouses, Sheffield UK) although large is barely 3 feet deep (a little more in some areas). It appears paved underneath. Ballast tanks? I'm only just learning but from what I've read the Engels approach seems good. I've fibreglassed before. I've looked at the SubCommitte (great title and great site) without subscribing, but didn't realise that you could order back CDs; will need to look at that. Does one need to subscribe before ordering the CDs?
Again, many thanks

BW
Richard

[noney]

Hi, I am also new

Hi, I am also new to the rc submarine hobby along with being new to this website. My application and check are in the mail for membership in the SubCommittee, and I look forward to all the services it provides, especially the CDs Mike Dory mentioned. I also hope I can get a copy of the soldering articule that was written by one of the members.

Before posting on this thread, I contacted Bonky to make sure he would not have a problem if I did. He did not. As with Bonky, I am trying to figure out with what submarine kit I should start. I also liked the Robbe U47 and U2540, but the kit lists a "level 3" experience requirement. I also do not know the difference between "static" and "dynamic" diving. I suspect the former is simply sinking while standing still and the latter is submerging while moving forward. Even if this is correct, why is one more complex then the other when building a kit?

I have limited experience with rc flying models i.e. fixed wing. I did a lot of U-Control when I was a kid, even designed my own planes and flew them. I am a woodworker (hobbiest), have a good sized shop, am retired, reasonably intelligent (please do not try to confirm this with my wife), and have plenty of time. While I hate to read instructions, I will do it. I am listing these personal demographics so that you, if you should decide to do so, might be able to answer questions I have with some insights as to whom you are addressing.

So the bottom line is, given this information should I purchased the Robbe kits, or should I go with the Engels Lafayette or even the Marlin? I really like the old boat styles but have enough sense to know when I am in over my head. One more bit of information, I have decided to purchase the Polk Tracker III controller. I decided on this after reading several posts on this website. I am also a model railroader and Polk Hobbies is a good name....if in fact this is the same company.

Lastly, is their a glossary printed somewhere that lists all the names and terms you use. For example "WTC"? I think this may stand for "water tight compartment" but I just do not know. What is an "ESC"? We are talking serious "newbie" here.

The more I read about this hobby, the more I realize what little I know. I hope someone out there will help me start in the right direction. Just think, we have a blank slate here, and with a little patience you can help fill in the blanks and make it a work of art.

Thank you, Noney: aka Gene

[raalst]

I would say that the

I would say that the best kit to start with is the kit that most fellow boatbuilders in your neighbourhood have experience with.
join a local club.


as for ESC : that is an Electronic Speed Controller, the thing you need to
hook up the motor to the receiver.

welcome aboard !

[bonky]

beginners' kits

Hi Noney,

well, as you know, I too am new, but you are right about WTC and static (dives without having to move forward) and dynamic (only dives if moving forward (at speed I understand), as the angle of the hydroplanes is the 'guiding force').

There are some excellent step-by-step guides of converting a Robbe U-47 to a static diver (with full pics), and of converting a Revell Gato (a modern sub I know) to a static diver using US-made parts ( thus not having to pay the postage to the UK as I would have needed to do)... If you need specific urls on these projects -please ask.

All the advice I am getting from other forums is .. buy Engels rather than Robbe and for the 1st purchase - buy their ' Layfayette'.

A sub glossary would help - can anyone guide us please?

Thanks,

Bonky aka Richard

[bonky]

Beginners' kits

Noney, see some other posts on the same subject:

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/ ... ic=11561.0

and

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=889782

BW

Richard

[JWLaRue]

Hi guys!

Welcome to a very

Hi guys!

Welcome to a very interesting and fulfilling hobby. There's nothing like flying underwater.....and re-kitting is not a problem with r/c subs.

One thing that you will find is that you will receive *all* kinds of advice and assistance in your goal of building and operating an r/c sub. Nothing wrong with that! ...but you will have to make a more-or-less informed decision as to where to start.

Some of the advice will be to start with the absolute simplest kit and over time work your way up to something more fully functional...and others will tell you to jump right in (the water's fine!) and we'll help you along the way.

When I started in this hobby (long ago, in a galaxy....nevermind), I received what I believe will be the same advice that will be given here. Of course back then, there weren't the almost ready to run kits that are available today! Based on my model building skills (static and control-line aircraft), I jumped right in and decided to build a static diving model of the Type VIIC U-boat. With all the great help I received and my background, turns out it wasn't that hard to do! I've never regretted not taking any other path into the hobby. (And I've recently gone the 'other' way and built one of the Aster live steam Mikados!)

If you are really interested in the robbe U-47 kit, I'd say go for it. Build it as a dynamic diver first. That will let you get something in the water and running, possibly for this year. Then consider making the mods for a static diver over the Winter months. This conversion isn't that difficult to do with all the great postings and articles written on how to do it.

On the other hand if a static diver is an immediate must then one of the Engel kits work well....but be prepared to have to futz with the electronics to get it to work right. Once running it'll run forever.

Of course, if you are really brave....you could start off with the top of the line Type VIIC kits, the one from OTW.

-hope this is helpful!

Jeff

[noney]

Hi Bonky

I just got off

Hi Bonky

I just got off the phone with a fellow in NJ who told me to buy the Robbe U47 for a first timer. He said that the important thing was to precisly follow the instructions. He also said that the dynamic diving boat was easier to build. However, looking at the URLs that you listed seems to unanimously point to the Engels Lafayette. What are you going to do? I was also told that the Polk Tracker III was not the controller to buy.

The unfortunate thing for me is that I live in the boonies, so to speak, and there is no club near me nor is there anyone else into this hobby close by. I have the same problem with my garden railroading. We are planning to move to the Dayton, Ohio area within the next 12 months and perhaps I will have better luck.

If you buy the Lafayette, maybe I should too and we could compare notes as we build. That really translates into my bugging you with questions. Have you made a final decision yet?

Noney

[bonky]

Layfayette

Hi, yes , I'm very tempted by the Lafayette. However, I've still to build a Beam-Engine (which could wait) and a lovely yacht: ( from yet another forum!):

"(( The second is a steam yacht "Yarta". See : http://www.kingstonmouldings.com/pdyartasteamyacht.htm

This is a hull-only 'kit'. Has anyone built these and offer help + advice please (preferably with some pics))."

Yes, it would be great to collaborate
... and perhaps to invite other experts as well.

BW

Richard (bed time!)

[noney]

Hi Jeff,
I replied to

Hi Jeff,
I replied to Bonky before your post came up. I like what you have to say.....I really in my heart of hearts wanted the U47. I like the old stuff, and is probably why I have most steam locomotives on my garden railroad. What do yo think of the Polk Tracker III and is it from Aristo-Craft, as in Polk Hobbys? I had already thought that if I bought the Robbe U47 in the dynamic configuration, I could convert later to static. (Gadzuuks, I am already starting to learn terms and meanings)

Come on Bonke, lets get the Robbe U47 and compare building notes as we go. Again, this will probably translate into my bugging you with questions.

Gene (Noney)

[polaris]

heres my 2 cents,

I

heres my 2 cents,

I started in this hobby in Jan of this year and purchased the Engel Lafayette kit, took about 3 months to complete, but I work kinda slow. My former expirence was in nitro mono hull boats, but that was about 10 years prior. I looked at many kits to start with like you are but decided to go ahead with the Lafayette as it seemed to be a straight forward and fairly easy build, and it was for the most part. Engel provides great customer service, and will help when you have questions.

Overall I think the Engel Lafayette kit was a good start. And it runs like a torpedo, turns on a dime and goes fast. I have had alot of fun with it.

Like me there are several guys here that have built the Lafayette kit, so if you go that route you'd be in good company if you needed guidance.

Here is a link to my assembly thread.

http://www.subpirates.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3663

regards,
Stuart

[JWLaRue]

Hi Gene,

There are a lot

Hi Gene,

There are a lot of r/c sub folks who have and like the Polk Tacker III. The use of a synthesized rf deck in the transmitter and receiver means never having to worry about a channel conflict. It's a computer radio, so very flexible in terms of setting things up.

That said, there are a few folks who have had re-occurring problems with this radio....but that does seem to be a very small minority.

-Jeff