Ceramic hull submarines

[novagator]

I'm reading a book by Joe buff and the story centers around a ceramic hull sub (next generation past seawolf and the virginia classes).

Now is the navy headed toward ceramic hull subs or is this some pipe dream that sounded good for a novel?

[petn7]

Why would one choose ceramic

Why would one choose ceramic hulls? Easier to build? Nonmagnetic? Much stiffer to allow the sub to go deeper?

[novagator]

well in the book they

well in the book they go much deeper

[petn7]

Seems to make sense, as

Seems to make sense, as they aren't as "tough" as metal, but their increased stiffness allows deeper diving.

I imagine they would be VERY expensive to manufacture and hard to repair, though.

[tom dougherty]

Joe Buff is (way over)

Joe Buff is (way over) projecting some technology that the Navy has considered, but never used for some very practical reasons. Very small demonstration hulls (R/C sized) have been made and tested. It is totally unclear how one would make a hull of any size out of ceramic material. Sure can't weld it together! There are other materials that are much better candidates for new hull materials to permit deeper diving.

And then, there are other big problems! Submarine operating depths went from 400 ft (Balao) to 700 ft (Skate, Skipjack) to 1300 ft (Permit, Sturgeon-which required a new, higher pressure air system). They may dive a few hundred feet deeper now with HY-100, but the outrageous operating depths (12,000 + ft) that Buff writes about would need more than just improved hull materials! Try blowing ballast tanks or pumping reactor cooling water against a 5200 PSI pressure head! All kinds of equipment would need to be re-engineered (Hey, the sanitary pumps won't work!). Subsafe would have to be totally redone to safely "invite" water at that pressure into internal hull piping for the condensers, etc. There's a reason that Alvin and other deep diving submersibles use lead shot that gets dropped for ballast!

I have read (but not finished) two of his books. I find Buff's characters one dimensional and cardboard, and his "New World" political scenario (a revitalized Nazi Germany allied with a reborn South African Apartheid state in the year 2012!!) so ridiculous and absurd that I just can't go further. He uses this contrived plot to refight the Battle of the Atlantic (with convoys nuked left and right). It borders on sheer fantasy.

[novagator]

thanks Tom. I was thinking

thanks Tom. I was thinking as much.

[Guest]

Graham Hawkes has built the

Graham Hawkes has built the Deep Flight Challenger from ceramics technology developed by the US Navy.

Up until his demise, Steve Fossett was funding this project.

http://deepflight.com/subs/df2.htm

[tom dougherty]

Confusing, as the blurb at

Confusing, as the blurb at the bottom states:

Deep Flight II (DFII), which has been designed and is awaiting funding, will be built with acrylic crew hulls for 3,000 feet or with titanium hulls with conventional viewports for 20,000 feet.

[Guest]

True. But if you look

True. But if you look at the picture of the Deep flight challenger on the home page, you'll see the prototype is at a well advanced stage of construction.

Andy

[don prince]

Hi Tom,

Barada Nikto.... That's a

Hi Tom,

Barada Nikto.... That's a cool Gort from the 1951 moovie "The Day The Earth Stood Still." I got a copy of the movie on a DVD from Amazon....

Regards,
Don_