The Toledo R/C Show

[kazzer]

We were excited at the thought of a weekend away to see a BIG radio Control show, and left early Thursday morning on the 400 mile drive from Rochester NY to Toledo Ohio.

We stopped for the night about an hour out of Toledo, so we only had a short drive to arrive about 10 am. The plan worked and I could hardly wait to walk the numerous aisles loaded with 'toys'. I was really looking forward to meeting all the people in the business and seeing tons of boats and submarines.

After carefully walking up and down every row, checking for boats and subs, I suddenly realised I had reached the end of the show. It took forty-five minutes.

Score? 3 small subs on the lower back shelf of Mikes Sub Works, while their front table loaded with plastic tanks.There was ZIP any where else. I found one book on submarines on one boat stand, but that was it!

An 800 mile trip, all over in 45 minutes! A show not worth visiting unless you like planes and cheap plastic helicopters! Certainly not profitable from a submarine vendor point of view.

Ah Well! Lesson learned!

[mylo]

Clearly....submarines do not have enough

Clearly....submarines do not have enough exposure in the r/c world. EVERYBODY knows that they are more fun to play with than.....planes. (I really have NO authority to say such a thing since I've never played with either) Set an aquarium up with a static diving sub surfacing and submerging at an r/c show.....see if it draws a crowd. My guess is that it would.

Whenever I tell people I'm involved in r/c subs, I get the usual, "Subs....you mean like....submarines...that go under water ? I didn't know you could get r/c submarines." Two years ago, I would have said the same thing.

Public awareness....... ...what about a multi-million dollar advertising campaign ?

Mylo

[chips]

Three years ago, there were

Three years ago, there were at least two sub models (one was my Thor PERMIT) on the judging table. Two years ago there was only my USS HAMMERHEAD (Scale Shipyard 1:96 GATO) on the judging table. None of the subs won those two years. Last year there were no subs on the table - the closest was my model of USCGC TAMAROA, which sank in drydock and was fondly called the CG's only sub.

This year the number of model boat vendors was down - Aeromarine Laminates was not there this year. Dumas hasn't been ther in about 5 years; Midwest hasn't been there in about three years. The following model boat vendors were there: Mike's Subworks; MACK Products; Scale Shipyard; Micro Glass; and Loylahanna Dockyard. These small guys seem to be doing better than the bigger established companies. Lee Upshaw had a separate Sub Hull catalog available, and prominently displayed at the Scale Shipyard booth. Lee seemed a little upset that I didn't bring the HAMMERHEAD for dsiplay in his booth. I could only attend the show on Friday this year; but I usually make a weekend of it and bring a boat ot two for the contest.

None of the model boat organizations were there: SubCommitte; IMPBA; NAMBA; SSMA; or AMYA. Only the Academy of Model Aeronautics had a booth. Hint: if the Sub Committee were able to get a booth, I'd make myself available to help man it, and even bring a few subs for the booth.

[skip asay]

"Certainly not profitable from a

"Certainly not profitable from a submarine vendor point of view."

Mike, you looked at it from the wrong side of the table. I found the Toledo show to be quite profitable over the 10 or 11 years I went as SubTech. I met and developed some of my best customers there, as well as friends. You were looking to see how many vendors were there. For the guy looking for something to buy, he probably would have found it.

Skip Asay

[kazzer]

But Skip, I was looking

But Skip, I was looking for things to buy. I was there to see what the competition was up to. I was there to learn. There was nothing - nothing!

Submarines and their specialized equipment were simply not represented.

It is encouraging to hear that you did well there in the past, but I've done over a hundred shows, selling all sorts of snake oil, from epoxy resin, to nuts and bolts and plating kits. I have a gut feeling that this show would barely pay its way, bearing in mind the lower margins associated with the business.

I'll pass! I'd prefer a weekend on the Eire Canal bass fishing!

[skip asay]

"But Skip, I was looking

"But Skip, I was looking for things to buy. I was there to see what the competition was up to. I was there to learn. There was nothing - nothing! "

Mike, I'm truly sorry you had a bad experience there but I don't think you were looking to buy anything. Checking out the competition, surely. But if you were just the average guy looking for, let's say an APC, you would have been able to get one. Or a host of other submarine specific stuff. Mike's SubWorks has it all. He may have had some tanks on the front table and the subs themselves on the back table but that is specifically my fault. I found the hard way that having the boats on the front table will draw all sorts of "looky loos" and such (I've had them 5 deep around the table - the buying public couldn't get to me with their cash!) but they weren't buying if I had been giving them away for $5.00 each. Mike might have been the only one there but just how many do you need?

Let's face it, the submarine community is an extremely small segment of the R/C hobby. It always has been and always will be. But there are still a lot of bubbleheads in the Toledo area who go to the show looking for whatever they can find. And, for the most part, they leave happy. Isn't that what it's all about?

Skip Asay

[chips]

I went there to buy

I went there to buy as well, and spent close to $600 at 4 of the boat vendors. I bought an APC and SubSafe from Mike; I bought the Lyman kits and some shafts from MACK Products; I bought some fiberglass hulls from Micro Glass; I bought some books and parts from Loyalhanna - one of the books was on the Type VII.

Friday morning is the best time to look at what the vendors have, as the crowd is usually smaller. Saturday afternoon is better for looking at the model displays, as they must be entered by Saturday to win any awards.

There is an ongoing discussion about the Toledo show and some of the vendors have chimed in with their views.

[wingtip]

My flying buddy went and

My flying buddy went and he said as well the turnout this year was less with several major vendors not showing... he did get me a few catalogs like from mikes subworks... even though i already bought everything i needed from him a few months ago lol...


so its not just the sub vendors that were less in attendance

[fung pang]

just get back home, from

just get back home, from the big show, a very long drive for me.

its a r/c hobby show that is way bigger than the wram show. 10 full.
i like the swap tables, odd and ends, but very bad lighting.
pick up a lot of junk. (all could be mail/inter net ordered, sorry i am not a people person)
some how came home with out the rent money.
just like the wram show, getting more like a toys r us.

i do think i will try it again.

one other thing i didn't see too many club table.

by the way. no more (free) club table next year at the wram show.

[kazzer]

Over the past 20 years,

Over the past 20 years, I've been to virtually HUNDREDS of shows as a vendor. In the early days, before The Internet, it was a wonderful way of getting some exposure. My plating kits took the bike and restoration fraternity by storm, and we revolutionised that aspect of vehicle restoration. We attended ALL the shows in Ontario, Canada, out to Ohio and as far south as Hershey and Carlisle.
Our main objective was to give out free catalogs. Guys would covet them and we STILL get orders from those 20 year old catalogs. We also made enough money usually to cover our expenses.

As the years went by, I noticed a distinct decline in the attendance and sales from these shows, while we had a marked improvement in sales from our Web pages. Of course, many of these shows started off as 'swap meets' where anyone could drop a tarp on the grass and throw on half a truckful of rusty parts, and make a small killing. But things changed. More and more professionals attended, and the show organisers realised there was REAL money to be made from commercial vendors. Booth prices went through the roof. The Golden Goose was slowly being strangled. We stopped attending about FIVE years ago, and have NOT regretted it.

As more and more people went online, and were able to see much more detail on a specific product, such as spec sheets, and even live video, the attendance dropped off more and more each year. Our sales, to this day, continue to climb.

As for the Toledo show, what is there to see that can't be seen on a web page? Good grief, they didn't even have a bucket of water there, you couldn't even sail one of those little Chinese dynamic subs.

Lets face it, these shows are dying, as Chips said, "The number of model Boat Vendors is DOWN!" So why aren't the other submarine vendors attending the Subregatta? It's simple - they lose money - NOT PROFITABLE!

I think the Subcommittee has to seriously consider this natural decline and perhaps reappraise its position and objectives for their annual event. As you know, I attended last years show, (& thoroughly enjoyed it) but who else did? Two vendors and thats it? Thats pitiful! I sent out invites to over 50000 of my regular customers, and made the venue a major feature of my web site, yet I saw hardly anyone there who was completely new to the business. it was the same old gang (nothing wrong with them - well of course Merriman excluded ) come for their annual 'get-away' from the wife?

I ask you, how many new submarines can you sell to the same old bunch of guys? How much room do you all have for yet another model in the basement?

The great thing about the Subcommittee regatta is that there is a great pond there, and its fairly central having a large catchment area. However, how many people from that locality have been lured into the area to watch the boats. I saw no-one who was actually from Carmel (except Mr Addington?)

So, the purpose of the Subregatta? Is it simply a good get together for 'The Gang', or is it designed to attract new members and show the world our great hobby. If the latter is the case, then I regret to say that it falls short, and therefore makes itself not so commercially attractive to vendors.

Carmel locals must yawn at the thought of spending a few hours watching our boats. (But at least they have WATER, unlike the Toledo show!) The few locals that have previously attended probably never return.

If the purpose of the Subregatta is to obtain new members, or sell our hobby more, then maybe the venue needs to be changed each year. Perhaps a three year cycle, east coast, west coast and central? Perhaps three Subregattas a year, run by individual groups to cover their own locality? This would certainly bring in more casual local visitors.

Maybe some SERIOUS advertising needs to be done to attract more visitors?

What about inviting some of those BB Gun warship guys to the show? At least we'd have some targets to hunt. It might turn into war-games, especially with torpedoes looming up in the near future. Could be FUN!

When I attended the Subregatta last year, I was bitterly disappointed at the overall attendance. I was expecting people to be ten deep around the pond, and my booth. When you get down to it and start counting the pennies, then the show doesn't compare to the effect my web page has.

There! Thats my two cents worth!

[Guest]

Doesn't SERIOUS advertising require SERIOUS

Doesn't SERIOUS advertising require SERIOUS amounts of moolah?

Andy

[mylo]

Fuel hit $5.50 / gal

Fuel hit $5.50 / gal where I'm at here in Canada and expected to blow well past $6.00 by summer. This cost likely has an impact on attendance to ANYTHING. With the exploding increase in fuel prices, I can see more and more people turn to r/c toys for recreation and getting rid of their full sized fuel burners such as motorbikes, boats, etc., etc. I think r/c submarines have a bright future.

From a businessman / vendor point of view, I can easily see where staying at home and focusing on my website would be the smart way to go. I would not attend shows, lose money left, right, and center.

From a hobbyist point of view, I look forward to Regatta to see some subs, talk to living human beings with subs. ....with luck...play with my own sub. I was always under the impression it was an event similar to a reunion, which I think is great. ....but....hardly conducive to making a profit or expanding the hobby. I guess the question needs to be asked, What's the purpose of the Regatta ?

Mylo

[skip asay]

Mike -

Much of what you

Mike -

Much of what you say is true but you’re still looking at the Toledo Show from a “checking out the competition” point of view. Yes, the internet has altered the playing field but there are still a great many “bubbleheads” who attend the show looking for submarine stuff. And it’s still a great source of advertising. I know I’ve had sales months (and even years) after the fact but the germ was placed at the show. Also, hard as it may be to believe, there are still a surprising number of people who aren’t on the internet.

I just talked to Alissa Shubar (Mikes Subworks) who tells me this was the 2nd best Toledo show they’ve ever had. So much for “Certainly not profitable from a submarine vendor point of view.”

“Lets face it, these shows are dying, as Chips said, "The number of model Boat Vendors is DOWN!" So why aren't the other submarine vendors attending the Subregatta? It's simple - they lose money - NOT PROFITABLE! “
Wait a minute. I thought you were talking about the Toledo show. But since you brought it up......

Throughout all of your writing, the general theme seems to be the number of vendors, as well as customers. This strikes a chord that’s near and dear to me. The size of the available customer base is small. As I’ve said previously, “It always has been and always will be.” There just aren’t that many folks out there deluded enough to build boats that sink. That said, it follows that there won’t be that many vendors, either. After all, you can only slice a small pie just so much. The vast majority of vendors (forgive my use of the word “vast”) just aren’t serious enough. Too many either look at what I’ve done and decide “I can do that, too”. There’s one “vendor’ (and I use that term lightly) who has tried just that. Buying stuff from somebody else although he brags about how he designed it and where is he now? Or they design some widget and then decide “Hey, I’m gonna sell a bazillion of these things!” Neither one of those scenarios will be successful mainly because they lack the “fire in the belly” or hell, let’s face it, the business sense required.

Looking at it from my point of view, the SubRegatta was usually my best show of the year and I used to go to shows all over the country. Was every year slam bang heavy? No. But every show was at least good. But what I brought to the table was EXPERIENCE. I had “been there and done that” and had a slew of T shirts to prove it. I was already intimately familiar with virtually every aspect of the hobby. And I designed virtually everything I sold so I could talk the talk as well as walk the walk. And like it or not, Mike Shubar has been building subs for a long time, too so he’s qualified to talk the talk as well as walk the walk. And I’ll be willing to bet that he’ll be back in Toledo next year and certainly at SubRegatta.

Skip Asay

[kazzer]

Hmmm! Very interesting!

2nd best show

Hmmm! Very interesting!

2nd best show at Toledo? So I was right, the shows are declining. I rest my case!

I have better things to do.

[robert f.]

I rest my case!

I have

I rest my case!

I have better things to do.

You might have thought of that before starting this thread and putting in a lot of effort. Now it just looks as if you can't handle not winning this little debate... (in which, by the way, I thought were good arguments on both sides).

Robert