Movie question: how inaccurate is "U-571"?

[rmfield]

Picked up the DVD yesterday for cheap, but IIRC there was some discussion when the movie was first released that the storyline contained a significant amount of "theatric license" - in other words, a good action yarn but only loosely based on the real historic event.
Any comments? I don't mind a good semi-fiction movie, just wanna be able to tell my kids how much or how little truth is in the details. I despair that recent generations sometimes take the silver screen as a substitute for the study of history.

TIA!

[raalst]

Then maybe you should indeed

Then maybe you should indeed study history instead of
being fed data by the lot of us, but anyway...

U571 is complete fiction. it would be somewhat closer to
history if all americans were replaced by brits, and even then
no U boat was ever operated by an allied crew alone
(IIRC the german crews had to help even with operation
deadlight)

The british obtained code books from a raid on a weathership,
and an enigma machine from entering a rammed and sinking sub.
(again, IIRC)

check uboat.net for historic data.

Regards,
Ronald van Aalst

[tom dougherty]

Actually, they get the basics

Actually, they get the basics correct. There indeed was a World War II, and there were submarines involved in it.

Beyond that, it's pretty much all fiction. Ther are several plot holes big enough to fly a 747 through. Some examples are the fact that in a raging storm two U-boats (one howeveris actually a converted S-boat modified to look like a U-boat) meet. After the S-boat crew successfully ovepowers the German U-boat crew, the S-boat is sunk by yet another German U-boat, which somehow manages to discern that the "U-boat" is actually an American S-boat in disguise. All that from a distance and throuh a periscope.

Then there is the successful attack of U-571 on another U-boat, while both are submerged. Sure, there were successful submarine attacks on other submarines (USS Batfish comes to mind) in WWII, but these were (as far as I know) ALL with the target submarine on the surface. The guidance technology to attack another submarine under water just wasn't there.

I could go on, but life is too short. Buy "Das Boot" in Director's cut for the ultimate U-boat movie.

[JWLaRue]

..and the U.S. did capture

..and the U.S. did capture a U-boat and gain the latest version of the Enigma rotors and associated code books. (e.g. U-505) And if I recall correctly, the capture of the U-505 yielded the first Allied look at the T-5 Zaunkonig torpedo.

This did have a positive impact on the Allied war effort, but the movie clearly overstated almost everything.

Tom is right, get a copy of Das Boot...but even that is a bit controversial based on reviews from the German audience, in particular former U-boat crew.

-Jeff

[Guest]

ASure, there were successful submarine

ASure, there were successful submarine attacks on other submarines (USS Batfish comes to mind) in WWII, but these were (as far as I know) ALL with the target submarine on the surface. The guidance technology to attack another submarine under water just wasn't there.

How about the R-class? A WWI hunter killer boat

[davietait]

Best book to get a

Best book to get a handle on what the real German submariners were like is U333 by Peter Cremer. He was a front line U boat skipper and his book really does open your eyes as to what these guys did and the depravations they had to endure beyond the attacks by surface escorts.

Davie

[k225]

MAY 1941

Capture of "U.110" and

MAY 1941

Capture of "U.110" and the German Enigma - South of Iceland, "U.110" attacked Liverpool-out convoy OB318. Blown to the surface by depth charges from corvette "Aubretia" on the 9th, "U-110's" crew abandoned ship, but she failed to go down. A boarding party from destroyer "Bulldog", led by Sub-Lt Balme, managed to get aboard. In a matter of hours they transferred to safety "U-110's" entire Enigma package - coding machine, code books, rotor settings and charts. The destroyer "Broadway" stood by during this hazardous operation. Two days later "U-110" sank on tow to Iceland, knowledge of her capture having been withheld from the crew. The priceless Enigma material represented one of the greatest intelligence coup ever and a major naval victory in its own right.

"U-110's" capture was far and away the most successful of the attempts to capture Enigma codes. In the March 1941 raid on the Norwegian Lofoten Islands, spare coding rotors were found. Then two days before the "U-110" triumph, a cruiser force had tried to capture the weather trawler "Munchen" off Iceland. At the end of the coming June a similar operation was mounted against the "Lauenberg". In both cases useful papers were taken but the real breakthrough only came with "U-110". Included with the material captured were all rotor settings until the end of June 1941. A number of codes were used with Enigma. The U-boat one was 'Hydra', also used by all ships in European waters. From the end of June, Bletchley Park was able to decipher 'Hydra' right through until the end of the war. Unfortunately the U-boats moved off this version to the new 'Triton' in February 1942. The big ship 'Neptun' and Mediterranean 'Sud' and 'Medusa' codes were also soon broken.
Also check this out how Clinton apologized for this movie]http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,3898446-103681,00.html[/url]
Also
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@lis.../msg40573.html



Edited By k225 on 1159829229

[JWLaRue]

The priceless Enigma material represented

The priceless Enigma material represented one of the greatest intelligence coup ever and a major naval victory in its own right.

I've always considered the Enigma materials, methods, and knowledge that was freely given by the Poles to the French and British to be the greatest intelligence coup. This enabled the boffins at Bletchley Park to build a remarkable intelligence operation that served the Allies well during WW2.

This is an aspect of the Enigma story that is all too often downplayed by those writing about the subject.

-Jeff

[sobrien]

Hello,
I've reading this list

Hello,
I've reading this list for awhile and just joined. As far as U-571 goes, my father was a submariner in WW II and after 8 war patrols on the USS Albacore he went to the east coast and help train new crews on the O-8. He got a chance to go through a few S boats in both Bribane and New England. He said the only thing that rang true about the S boat in the movie was that they did leak a little. He does say that Das Boot does come closest of any movie to a realistic portrayal of what it was like to live on a sub in WW II as far as the tight quarters and claustrophic feeling and being bombed and depth charged. Granted he was on a Gato which was bigger with more amenities, but you were still on a boat with 80-90 people.

sobrien

[dietzer]

If you get the U-571

If you get the U-571 DVD, there was a some good bonus material on the captures of U-110 and U-505, including interviews with allied veterans who actually boarded the German U-boats. Took a lot of guts for a surface sailor to board a floundering submarine in combat conditions...

Carl

[mike byers]

IMO the best book on

IMO the best book on U-boat life is "Iron Coffins" by Herbert Werner.

Mike

[jefftytoo]

Rmfield --

If you're still reading

[color=#000000]Rmfield --

If you're still reading -- and you're interested -- send me your e-address and I'll send you a copy of a letter I wrote when the movie came out . . . noting fourteen major (or at least annoying) technical/historical mistakes that jumped out at me just on the first viewing! Still, U-571 is a fun action movie if you go into it with no notion of taking it seriously.

Meanwhile, with all the above talk of Enigma, folks may actually want to read the Sub Books column in the upcoming SCR; the December issue will feature a review by yours truly on one of the major tomes on the subject. BTW]

[jutland67]

Hi guys, I have the

[color=#000000]Hi guys, I have the U-571 DVD in my collection, and as is suggested it is fun to watch if you suspend belief..however, I found it difficult to watch in terms of historical accurracy. It's just too hard to beat "Das Boot" I don't think they ever will.
I did find some interesting information in the " U-Boat fact file " which is one of my favorite books ]

[anonymous]

For the complete story of

For the complete story of the U-boat/Enigma connection(including the fabulous work done by the Poles!), might I suggest reading "Seizing the Enigma" by David Kahn?

If you are not into crypto theory (personally, I love that stuff....), you may find some of it dry, but on the whole it is a good book.

[hakkikt]

Not to forget that -

Not to forget that - being a decent German villain - the U-boat commander naturally had to order the machine-gunning of survivors in a lifeboat. Vot is a good patrohl visowt mashine-gunning life-boots, har har har.
Among other things, it was the planned inclusion of scenes like that which made Lothar-Günther Buchheim refuse having his book turned into a movie by an American studio.