Affordable Submarines

[Guest]

Hi, I was wondering what the most affordable and highest quality sub you can buy is?



Thanks, Erik S.

[warpatroller]

I would think the highest

I would think the highest quality sub you can buy would probably not be affordable, unless your a fairly rich guy. Just what that sub would be, hmmmm....maybe someone else can answer that one.

It seems an affordable or cheap sub is an oxymoron....doesn't really exist. I thought there might be such a thing in the past, but it appears I was wrong.

A dynamic diver made from an injection plastic model kit may be the most affordable way to go (which by nature means a small sub model).

That would be a challenge though, to build a HIGH quality, well functioning, inexpensive submarine. Anybody out there feel they have accomplished such a thing?

Steve

[Guest]

I'm building up a pair

I'm building up a pair of small submersibles at the moment. Minus electronics, cost should come in at about £15, including motors.

I think that's fairly inexpensive, and these boats will not be compromised in performance in any way.

If you wish to purchase kits to enter this hobby, then the price goes up, as you are effectively paying for someones time.

If you DIY, then you only have the material costs, and this brings costs down considerably.

The cost of radio and batteries is only marginally higher than for boats or cars, and is the same as for aircraft.


DIYing generally involves the purchase of tools and associated equipment. These are good investments for any modelmaker.

Once you have these tools, you can continue to make additional models, at much lower cost than purchasing kits. It's much more satisfying to scratchbuild too.

Andy

[tom dougherty]

If you look at the

If you look at the superb work that David Welch has done in converting some of the larger model kits (Trumpeter Seawolf, Revell Type VII-C) into working R/C models, you get an idea of how a high quality model (OK, maybe not the Trumpeter Seawolf, but you get the idea) can be built relatively inexpensively. I would be very surprised if Dave doesn't come out with a conversion of the Revell 1/72 Gato when it comes out later this year. You can also look at alternative ballast systems such as the work Dr. Art Brodie has done.

[gerwalk]

Cheap]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_razz.gif
Seriously]

[color=#000000]Cheap]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_razz.gif[/img]
Seriously]

[elec_tech]

Cheap]

Seriously Pablo, I think you're

[quote]Cheap]

Seriously Pablo, I think you're pointing SubDude in the wrong direction here. I think very few people around here would willingly put Walmart toys in with the same kind of models that are built here. Walmart toys are mass produced pieces of plastic with cheap components meant to be thrown about, abused by kids and never last more than a couple runs out before the kid gets bored with it or breaks it. Sure you can mod them up but it's nothing compared to model building.

No, the models here are in a different league altogether. What is done here and at SONAR and on non-club members workbenches is true model building or kit building.

Dan
Not a Walmart supporter

[subdude]

Erik,

What Andy replied with is

[color=#000000]Erik,

What Andy replied with is honestly the real answer. The question is, how much work are you willing to do for yourself, and how good are you at bargain hunting?

For example, I built a 1/96 Soviet Alfa some years back for around $250, complete and in the water. Fiberglass hull, all the necessary electronics, ballast system, etc. The key was building what I could for myself, and purchasing whatever I couldn't or didn't want to build at an economical cost.

Here's a breakdown]



Edited By subdude on 1149189006

[raalst]

Look at it this way

Look at it this way ]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

The most important is to find people to learn from, both on the web and locally.

[slugejudge]

I am new as of

I am new as of December 2005 to the hobby, and my first two purchases were the Dumas Akula, and a Plastic Model by Thrumpeter the Kilo. Read every thread on the two and purchased the parts for both and a WTC kit from BigDave for the Kilo.

The quality of the WTC from Dave and detailed instructions, quickly had me building the more complex Kilo. It is a static diver handles great and there are lots of people to help you build it.
Big Daves conversions, and all related gear (radio, batteries, chargers, pitch control, micro-servos, micro receiver, black cat antenna, fail-safe, ESC, and etc), New cost me around $500.00.
I bought a complete ready to run Permit used for $1,350.00.

I honestly have as much fun with the Kilo as I do with the Permit. I would recommend building the Kilo using Big Daves or David Merrimans WTC. Or if you need a little more finger room to work in go for the Thrumpeter Seawolf with Bigdaves WTC and it is easier to build than the Kilo.

You the builder can shop for affordability and determine the quality by your craftsmanship.

But Lyles partially built Marlin is a Great Deal!!! Lyles built my Permit and it is top quality! Plus Mike at Mike's Subworks sells the kit!! He will gladly help with advice and supply replacement parts if necessary. Mike and Lyle are just a few of the greats in this hobby!!!!

[anonymous]

I am new as of

I am new as of December 2005 to the hobby, and my first two purchases were the Dumas Akula, and a Plastic Model by Thrumpeter the Kilo. Read every thread on the two and purchased the parts for both and a WTC kit from BigDave for the Kilo.

The quality of the WTC from Dave and detailed instructions, quickly had me building the more complex Kilo. It is a static diver handles great and there are lots of people to help you build it.
Big Daves conversions, and all related gear (radio, batteries, chargers, pitch control, micro-servos, micro receiver, black cat antenna, fail-safe, ESC, and etc), New cost me around $500.00.
I bought a complete ready to run Permit used for $1,350.00.

I honestly have as much fun with the Kilo as I do with the Permit. I would recommend building the Kilo using Big Daves or David Merrimans WTC. Or if you need a little more finger room to work in go for the Thrumpeter Seawolf with Bigdaves WTC and it is easier to build than the Kilo.

You the builder can shop for affordability and determine the quality by your craftsmanship.

But Lyles partially built Marlin is a Great Deal!!! Lyles built my Permit and it is top quality! Plus Mike at Mike's Subworks sells the kit!! He will gladly help with advice and supply replacement parts if necessary. Mike and Lyle are just a few of the greats in this hobby!!!!

Well said!

Steve

[slats]

Hi Erik,
Basically you get what

Hi Erik,
Basically you get what you pay for.
Ask yourself this question; is your search for a "cheap" submarine out of curiosity for this hobby, (not sure if you are going to like so don't want to spend too much), or are you wanting the world for nothing?

If you are interested in getting a feel for what you get for your money, enquire about meeting up with a local subcommittee chapter at a running day, so that you can see first hand what makes our hobby so terrific. That way you can make a more informed decision about the hobby, before handing over your hard earned cash.

A RC submarine that you spend a few or several hundred dollars on should give you years of enjoyment (albeit frustration at times). There are numerous examples of people doing things well on the cheap in this hobby, and I am all for that, but bear in mind a lot of the cost containment is often within the boundaries of a person skill base and ingenuity. (i.e. e.g. Building using sewer pipes and plastic bottles, converting plastic kits to operational subs.) If you are talking about buying a working RC sub with static diving ability then you will pay for this. A cheap working toy, I believe won't last long and I believe is not a good introduction to how good this hobby is.

There are plenty of people that can tell you that the cheapest route to achieving things worthwhile often cost a great deal more in the long run, as the realisation kicks in that cheap doesn't satisfy very long, and by the time you realise that you might as well have put the cost of a cheap purchase or cheap purchases towards what you really are pursuing.

Moreover, our hobby, and its very existence and devlopment has been pushed a long far further by pioneering individuals running cottage industry businesses than the mass produced Chinese toy crap often produced as illegal duplicates with no respect to the individuals who had the brains to come up with. It is interesting that the proliferation of toy like products came well after RC submarines was established as a hobby and not the other way around.

Hope this helps your decision making paradigm.

John

[gerwalk]

Cheap]

Seriously Pablo, I think you're

[quote]

Cheap]

Seriously Pablo, I think you're pointing SubDude in the wrong direction here. I think very few people around here would willingly put Walmart toys in with the same kind of models that are built here. Walmart toys are mass produced pieces of plastic with cheap components meant to be thrown about, abused by kids and never last more than a couple runs out before the kid gets bored with it or breaks it. Sure you can mod them up but it's nothing compared to model building.

No, the models here are in a different league altogether. What is done here and at SONAR and on non-club members workbenches is true model building or kit building.

Dan
Not a Walmart supporter

Sorry Dan,
I'm perfectly aware of the high quality engineering model work done by the Sonar guys and by some guys over here (though I wouldn't put everybody in the same league ).

I first replied tong in cheek since Erik asked for an affordable sub (affordable and Walmart was an instant association, though highest quality is not ) Then I realized that he didn't specified what kind of sub he was looking for and maybe a Wallmart sub was good enough for him (I'm happy with mine though I'm currently building a more "serious" one)

Not wanting to start a flame war here (devil's advocate mode engaged) but :

What is the actual difference (aside from several hundred dollars) between a guy who buys a Wallmart sub, mod it in order to improve it's performance and even tweaking the electronics, with a guy who buys a full RC sub kit from a vendor (only put in some servos and you are ready to go!)?
In both cases they "just" assemble (not BUILD!!) a RC model sub, they have to deal with WTCs, they have to trim the sub etc.

For me the Walmart sub was a good way to test the hobby (for just 19u$s!). I tried it and like it! and then decided to start "building" (i.e. build my own parts except for the hull) my own passive diving sub model in 1/144 scale. It is also a great way to get kids into this hobby (maybe you prefer to keep this as a hobby for seniors )

HINT: the Walmart Los Angeles class hull could be modified to resemble a DSRV like the Mystic...

OK: now I should dive before the heavy artillery shells start to rain on me!

[elec_tech]

Sorry Dan,
I'm perfectly aware of

Sorry Dan,
I'm perfectly aware of the high quality engineering model work done by the Sonar guys and by some guys over here (though I wouldn't put everybody in the same league ).

I first replied tong in cheek since Erik asked for an affordable sub (affordable and Walmart was an instant association, though highest quality is not ) Then I realized that he didn't specified what kind of sub he was looking for and maybe a Wallmart sub was good enough for him (I'm happy with mine though I'm currently building a more "serious" one)

Not wanting to start a flame war here (devil's advocate mode engaged) but :

What is the actual difference (aside from several hundred dollars) between a guy who buys a Wallmart sub, mod it in order to improve it's performance and even tweaking the electronics, with a guy who buys a full RC sub kit from a vendor (only put in some servos and you are ready to go!)?
In both cases they "just" assemble (not BUILD!!) a RC model sub, they have to deal with WTCs, they have to trim the sub etc.

For me the Walmart sub was a good way to test the hobby (for just 19u$s!). I tried it and like it! and then decided to start "building" (i.e. build my own parts except for the hull) my own passive diving sub model in 1/144 scale. It is also a great way to get kids into this hobby (maybe you prefer to keep this as a hobby for seniors )

HINT: the Walmart Los Angeles class hull could be modified to resemble a DSRV like the Mystic...

OK: now I should dive before the heavy artillery shells start to rain on me!

Oh no heavy shelling here Pablo, I understand what you're getting at.

First, I agree with you're not putting everyone in the same league statement.. that's certainly true enough! There are a lot of great builders here but yes, some are much better than others.

Second, (understanding your devils advocate mode)
You do make good points as well in the different "classes" of sub building... there's your Walmart mods and kit assemblies, then build from semi-scratch (hull kit only - the rest is DIY) and then the full blown scratch build. And I won't argue the fact that there is nothing really different between a guy buying a Walmart toy and modding it or a guy building a complete kit as per instructions. they are both starting points to the hobby, just from different angles. One from an electronic side mainly(from what I've read in forums Walmart mods are electronic based) and one from a constructability side(I have some experience in plastic models, doesn't everybody? - though not subs). Both are different approaches to the same end point.... having fun and developing modelling skills.

Now you have in a way proven my point though by mentioning the kids.... "a great way to get kids into the hobby"... and my statement was that they're meant to be abused by kids before they break it. Well sure you're not going to spend hundreds or thousands on a sub kit or turn key and then the time on top of that so your kid could ram it into the nearest pier or wall. I know that. And as a tester for yourself, yup... I get that too... better to try something out cheaply before investing... makes perfect sense. With regards to Erik though, he seemed already interested in the hobby... why send him to a tester model? why not get to kit building right away? that's all I was trying to get at.

And as for keeping this hobby for seniors???? Hello, My name is Dan, I am 25! young and full of P & V! I am not trying to keep this to seniors I just like to encourage creativity and self-reliance. Quite frankly, when it comes to things I enjoy, I don't want to buy something that someone else made and mass produced. I got into this hobby because there was an element of creativity required and a chance for me to build something I could enjoy for a long time that would also be unique, never before seen.

I've been building my custom subs for almost a year now. I am still learning, I am not a professional, I am doing this for personal enjoyment and stress relief and a break from work.
I've just stated nothing other than my opinion... take it as you will.....

Dan

[gerwalk]

Dan,
yours is one of most

Dan,
yours is one of most clear and friendly answers I've ever received in these forums during a debate. Thanks for understanding!

I have to agree with your point of view]http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_razz.gif[/img] emoticon after the "senior" statement (I was "kidding") 38 years old here!

[elec_tech]

Pablo,

Thanks, I enjoy talking

Pablo,

Thanks, I enjoy talking out and learning through discussion. It helps a person think before they talk. Something I feel more and more people don't do these days (as seen on SP T-dome at times).

Sounds like you've also done more on the wallmart sub than most... point taken... hope you enjoy it!

A lot of good points in this thread... all from a simple question.. makes a person think about really keeping it simple which often means things are kept cheap! not to say not done right... just no added complexity for no real value.

Dan