Question for Marc at FX Models. - Painting techniques

[jutland67]

[color=#000000]Hi Marc, a while ago you gave a superb and very detailed description of how you produced the finish on your DSRV and it gave some really good techniques which I hope to attempt on my current build of a 1/72nd scale OTW Trafalgar class kit. What I am doing is making some small changes to the hull and rudders so that I can model the slightly earlier Swiftsure class sub H.M.S. Spartan as she was in the early 1980's ( conveniently this was also before the fitting of ancheoic tiles to the sub !! )

I have a good idea of how to simulate a metallic finish on a sub (thanks to your DSRV tutorial ) , but now I wonder if you could give your advice on how best to achieve the following ]

[Guest]

A piece of advice I

A piece of advice I picked up from an old article by Dave merriman in the Sub Committee report was that to get a realistic black on a model nuke, use a dark grey.

This makes sense when you look at pictures of fullsize nukes, they don't look jet black, but a very dark grey, no doubt owing to the way light plays off the hull sides, sun bleaching etc..

I'd have a word with Dave. He produces excellent instruction tapes, and his paint skills look every bit as equal to Marc's.

[fx models]

Hi Marc, a while ago

[color=#000000][quote]Hi Marc, a while ago you gave a superb and very detailed description of how you produced the finish on your DSRV and it gave some really good techniques which I hope to attempt on my current build of a 1/72nd scale OTW Trafalgar class kit. What I am doing is making some small changes to the hull and rudders so that I can model the slightly earlier Swiftsure class sub H.M.S. Spartan as she was in the early 1980's ( conveniently this was also before the fitting of ancheoic tiles to the sub !! )

I have a good idea of how to simulate a metallic finish on a sub (thanks to your DSRV tutorial ) , but now I wonder if you could give your advice on how best to achieve the following ]
Hi James,

I would be happy to give you some advice. First of all that flat black or matte black finish on boats is something to shy away from as you suspect because there is no actual 'black' anything. Very dark grey is the best for a base color. But, that said, you go dark grey and then you will use a number of lighter shades.
Order of painting is important by the way. The order below is punctuated with descriptions of each step.

Painting Order 1-5 with descriptions

1: Base coat

For an answer to base coat selection in your questions, use a dark grey almost black. Heat the paint can in hot water before spraying. This is a must! Otherwise you will not get the smooth finish you require for scale. The paint can be ultra-flat because when we are done it will be metallic looking. You NEED to control the sheen as you will see so use as flat a coat as possible.

2: Panel Large scale subtle details

As far as the rest of the bland large surfaces of the boat, here is where you need to use some observation of boats in drydock. In some cases, you have areas of the boat that show whole panels that are brighter by a shade but typically not darker. It could have been a slight difference in paint or a drydock repair that caused this subtle difference but I have seen many subs in drydock directly and can tell you that NO sub is homogeneous in color along its length. There are always fairly large areas of difference. A few [not many] 15-30 foot areas of difference here and there will do wonders. These areas are tied to the outer hull plating and do not necessarily follow frame lines. Further, they are also sometimes at different GLOSS levels too which is a neat little trick that works well [further below at final finish this comes into play]. Weathered detail that follows frame lines is discussed next...


3].
Once you have painted the appropriate outline of non-skid, NOW you do the work to make it look like non-skid. Here is how and this directly relates to the final metallic sheen. Cut a mask that can be placed OVER the non-skid pattern you created. Better yet, preserve the original mask you created the pattern with and use it to make a new one of the previously OPEN part of the mask with low tack masking tape or paper. This can be precisely placed over the non-skid deck section to protect it from what is to follow. Low tack tape is the best for this once the top deck is thoroughly cured and dried. Once the mask is in place, now take a cotton rag and begin rubbing the paint finish gently. It does not matter which way you go. You are producing a metal shipyard finish on the boat. You may have to rub vigorously but this will produce a sheen on the boat that will be inconsistent [good!] and will produce the desired effect. The rubbing out effect will hit every area of the boat except the masked off area[s]. You may choose to mask off some panels too on the hull that you wish to see remain flatter for some weathering effect. If you do. pick panels that you previously painted in the large subtle hull area panels. After rubbing out the boat to satisfaction remove the mask(s) and you will see an immediate difference between the flat non-skid and the metallic look. Done! And it looks great! The textured non-skid would not be terribly visible at typical RC scales so dont bother with that unless you really want some huge bumps on the deck!

5]

[jutland67]

Thanks guys for your answers.

Thanks guys for your answers. Marc, thanks so much for your very comprehensive breakdown of the techniques to use. If you have any pictures of a model you guys have made, which illustrates the techniques you mentioned i would love to see. Thanks so much for all your help, it really is great to be able to get this kind of info on the forums here.

[anonymous]

Hi Marc, everyone,

Enjoyed your painting

Hi Marc, everyone,

Enjoyed your painting explanations. I seem to follow similar techniques and philosophy in interpretation of the modeling subject.

I would tend to use a Floquil 'Grimy Black' for HMS Spartan (the railroad colors). The non-skid decks, Floquil 'Engine Black'. These two colors are both very dark grays, but 'Engine black' the darker of the two. I tend to choose the wet non-skid look. Especially if the model is to eventually operate in water.

Use a clean soft cotton rag and french polish the dry paint, rub in one direction generally, (fore and aft). This will bring out a sheen, revealing a subtle depth to the surfaces.

Apply your dry transfers (draft markings etc.). Then apply a thin tack coat of Floquil 'clear flat'. Just enough to seal the dry transfers. Once dry, apply a heavier clear coat now over the entire model once it is assured the dry transfers will not 'float' off the wet surfaces. The Floquil 'clear flat' name is deceiving. It actually gives a nice matt finish, and evens out the finish visually between the different colors underneath, giving a great scale translucent finish. It's this finish that got me some first place scale wins. The surfaces no longer look like a model held two feet away form your eyes, but of a real sub and you are gazing at it several hundreds of feet away.

Experiment with the sonar windows. Like Marc said, pick your poison. In 1982, this would be the transition period in the American and likely Royal Navies were the steel sonar windows surfaces were being replaced in upgrade yard periods with GRP (Glass re enforced plastics). It should have a slightly different translucence (less translucence or depth in the color finish and slightly more opaque). If you paint these 'windows' following this interpretation will also add subtilely a little more visual character (contrasting levels of translucence). But we do not want the contrast to be a visually 'loud' one. Always remember to see your model (squint your eyes if necessary) as it would look not as a model, but as the real vessel a couple of hundred feet or meters away.

I might dare to say, even try a 'flat black' on the sonar windows ONLY. The flat black in this one case might have the opaqueness tricking the eye into implying visually a slightly different surface. Paint the windows AFTER you have french polished all the other surfaces. Don't buff out the sonar windows. Then apply your clear coat over the entire model, following the procedure above so your dry transfers don't float away. This clear coat will even out the colors.

Like all who really know, no submarine is really black. No more than in portrait painting, is the subjects eyes really white. If the eyes are white, then you get that old corny movie cliche of the eyes following you around the room. Sometimes those are eyes following you, espicaly if the movies director happens to be Mel Brooks, Blake Edwards, or Chuck Jones, but usually it is due to bad portrait painting. lol. That is why I also paint white retractable cleats on subs light gray, not the white they actually are on the real boat. It is all about beautiful shades of gray.

Steve Reichmuth



Edited By Dolphin on 1135808994