silly question (?)

[raalst]

Hi All,

It just occurred to me that defence against torps
is by means of decoys.

Was there never a anti-torp torp developed ?
seems to me torps make noise ("torpedo in the water, sir"),
therefore are easily detected and homed in on
by another torp.

was there never any, did I not read enough books yet
or should I be running to the patent office by now ?
and if there never was any, what fundamental problem
am I overlooking ?

Very interested in your reflections on this.



Edited By raalst on 1119732321

[petn7]

i think they do have

i think they do have decoy torpedoes. at least in the fictional book, Hunt for Red October a US sub tried to fool the russian alfa sub into firing on a decoy so the US subs could now follow their rules of engagement and fire back. i think the decoy worked by basically being a self propelled speaker system that moved underwater and created noises that imitated a US SSN or whatever. i'm probably a little off though. anyone want to clarify?

[raalst]

ok, but my question is

[color=#000000]ok, but my question is ]

[chips]

Ah, the infamous anti-bullet bullet

Ah, the infamous anti-bullet bullet theory. It could be that Sonar isn't as accurate as Radar. The Army's Patriot missile system was originally designed as an anti-aircraft (& helicopter) missile. Some fine tuning by the guys at Raytheon engineering got the system to pickup incoming with a cross section of about 2 feet - from the original airplane cross section of 6-8 feet. You may want to take a look at some of the results of the USAF anti-missile missile defense system (aka "Star Wars"), they haven't had too much test success with hitting an incoming missile with another missile.

[petn7]

well, it seems that your

well, it seems that your asking 2 different things. I have never read about it from a credible source, but from that decoy example in Hunt for Red October, i wouldn't be surprised if the US or some country's navy has not at least experimented with a decoy torpedo. So when your sub has been fired upon, you release the decoy torpedo that draws in the enemy torpedo to track it instead of you. However, i would assume that the torpedo will be wired guided. in that case, i'm sure the "mother sub" that launched the torpedo would have sonar good enough that can distinguish b/w you and the decoy.

as for intercept torpedoes like in the show, seaQuest, i'm sure that's pretty far off technology wise.

[gerwalk]

Ah, the infamous anti-bullet bullet

Ah, the infamous anti-bullet bullet theory. It could be that Sonar isn't as accurate as Radar. The Army's Patriot missile system was originally designed as an anti-aircraft (& helicopter) missile. Some fine tuning by the guys at Raytheon engineering got the system to pickup incoming with a cross section of about 2 feet - from the original airplane cross section of 6-8 feet. You may want to take a look at some of the results of the USAF anti-missile missile defense system (aka "Star Wars"), they haven't had too much test success with hitting an incoming missile with another missile.

[color=#000000]Bob,
I don't think the missiles analogy works here well. We are talking about different environments (water vs air), different relative speeds (super or ultra-sonic vs 100~200 knots), radar vs sonar, etc.

It's not directly related with this but reading Rössler "The U-boat..." book I learnt about some projects the germans considered as means to defend their U-boats against an attacking destroyer]

[boomerfunker]

Hmm...anti torp torp

1. How long

Hmm...anti torp torp

1. How long do you get to run a plot on an incoming torp? Not
long I'd say It'd have to be a "snapshot" at best

2. Sure you can wire guide but you can't perform any
evasion away without cutting it. And you will want to evade

3. The rapid closing speed, small target, and no 2nd chance would necessitate the explosive warhead to be proximity
based not contact

So you've got a "homer"
free to run willy-nilly though your local water space with
some sort of proximity explosive function triggered on high-speed propeller noise. Don't think you'd want to counter fire a MK-48 with that thing around.

4. Decoy torps do exist and can provide a one-time,
more flexible expedient to dropping a giant fizzy pill
in your wake, since it can take a tangental course
and change depth etc.

I'm just thinking aloud, feel free to shoot me full of holes