Alfa max depth? - Confused by Polmar's remark

[wayne frey]

All Typhoons had shrouds.It was

All Typhoons had shrouds.It was to protect the props from ice, as these boats were designed specifically to hide and operate under the icepack.
The protuding dome thing--fantasy. Drivees me nuts to see it on the model kit and in drawings.
No two typhoons were exactly the same, but all looked the same from the outside.
They had attenuators on the props also, like the Alfa. I have good pictures of that.

[gerwalk]

Wayne]http://submarine.id.ru/galery/t418.jpg

Thanks for your answers! I

Wayne]http://submarine.id.ru/galery/t418.jpg[/img]

Thanks for your answers! I thought the same about those ugly drawings of the Typhoon with protruding domes.

[Guest]

971,
thanks for the data on

971,
thanks for the data on the Mike. I didn't have that one! But I wonder why they made only the external hull of Titanium? It would be more logical to make the internal or pressure hull of Ti.

The Papa was also made entirely of Ti but AFAIK was even faster. Polmar says that it was the fastests SSN ever.

As for the test depth of the Liras/Alfas, I tend to beleive that the 900m or more was an american intelligence deduction but that the real figures are not that deep.

I doubt that the information of the PAPA being built entirely of titanium is correct. Do not forget, the Papas are tactical boats (cruise-missile) and their mission enveope is far from requiring such a strong hull.

Concerning the Mike, she was one of a kind, a prototype intended to be the Alfa's successor. So it wasn't really necessary to invest in both hulls being made of titanium as far as I know, until the tests were completed. And I was wrong there for a second. It's the compression hull not the outer one made of the precious material.

[wayne frey]

Spirited Russian submarine conversation!! I

Spirited Russian submarine conversation!! I love it!!!
That entrance looks like the on to the seaside entrance, yes.
If so, that angle was taken from another point.

[gerwalk]

971,
I think that we can't

[color=#000000]971,
I think that we can't talk about Papas but PAPA (singular)since the only one ever made was the K-162 (later redesignated K-222...aka the three duckies ) Also YES it was the first submarine to have a titanium hull. Both the Mike (also a Ti hull sub) and Papa can be considered prototypes since there was only one of each.

IMHO Ti was not only used for making submarines that can go deeper but maybe it was inteded for making faster submarines (I tend to believe this was the main reason!!) since it is much lighter than steel (for the same strenght)

I've found this in another forum on the web (http://www.strategypage.com/messageboar ... 2-1409.asp) A guy was saying that the Ti hulls was a urban myth when another one relpied with this]



Edited By Gerwalk on 1114817327

[Guest]

Right on the mark there,

Right on the mark there, Gerwalk.

The information on the PAPA is correct. My mistake.
And the infos on the Ti are quite surprising.

[wayne frey]

I posed the depth question

I posed the depth question to the former Alfa driver. I will post his answer when I get it.

[tommydeen]

Wayne noticed in the photos

Wayne noticed in the photos in alpha tales that some of the
paint on the upper hull of the alpha chips off easly. did you get a look at the material the lira were made of? if so what color is it? trying to simulate this on my new piant job on my
alpha. i dont think its just silver

Tom

[wayne frey]

Tom,
Not sure I follow

Tom,
Not sure I follow you. The upper is black.As I said before, the lower was 3 different colors over the years.
The boat in the 2004 issue was litterally being decomissioned. I would expect it to be rough on the outside.
Other pictures I have show different parts removed, and some small detail. Such as over the reactor, there is a row of bottles that look like scuba tanks, but longer, horizantal just under the skin.
Interesting stuff...

[gerwalk]

What Tom is asking (I

What Tom is asking (I think) is that in some of the deck detail photos you published in the SCR a lighter color (white or light grey in the pics) is seen in some areas, specially around panel lines. In one case (close to the bow area) the lighter color zones follows an arched pattern (from ropes sliding and wearing out the paint?)

That could be a lighter primer or maybe even bare Ti which has a much higher reflectivity than the black paint.

[wayne frey]

Ok,
To answer the origional

Ok,
To answer the origional question, the Alfa officer says 400 meters for max depth is correct. They routinely ran 320 meters down in , as he calls it, "battle dashing".

[anonymous]

Based on the reply to

[color=#000000]Based on the reply to Wayne, that would make the depth as just over 1300 ft, in line with Permit/Sturgeons depths. Interesting that the Russians went to the considerable expense and trouble to weld titanium hulls (initially the welding was done in airtight construction halls filled with argon, as the titanium formulation could not be welded in the presence of oxygen). The assumption that the Russians were going for greater depth was logical, based on the yield strength of titanium, and the fact one could make a thicker hull with the same weight as HY-80. BTW, in Gerwalk's earlier post, he said]

[JWLaRue]

Tom,

Could the use of titanium

Tom,

Could the use of titanium have been used to offset design and/or manufacturing difficulties with the internal supporting structures (e.g. frames).

Also don't we also need to know the thicknesses used for the HY-80 on the Permit/Sturgeon vs. the Ti on the Alfa played a role in designed diving depth?

-Jeff

[gerwalk]

Tom,
I realized my mistake some

[color=#000000]Tom,
I realized my mistake some hours after posting and (shame on me) forgot to comment it. I was thinking airplanes concepts not sumbarines ones!! Stupid me!!]

[wayne frey]

I like the questions. I

I like the questions. I learned something yet again. The prop question was very good, and obvious. I want to learn as much as possible before it gets lost in time.
I am working on yet another source of Alfa information that should be the most detailed, complete information yet. But the chase is taking a while. I got a peek into it. Wow!