Alfa max depth? - Confused by Polmar's remark

[gerwalk]

[color=#000000]I've seen many maximum depth for the Alfa class subs. From the infamous 900m or more from the Hunt for the Red October flick to the Deepstorm (babelfish translation)"Submersion depth, m]

[wayne frey]

I can field this one.
The

I can field this one.
The external hull is for sure titanium. I have it at home(will get it later), as to the depth max. If not, I can ask my Alfa driver. I know they could go deeper than conventional US subs at this the time. But not as deep as first guessed by our intel.
I know we had to design a new torpedo just to catch it, as it could out run our torpedos! I also know the tactic frequently used by the Alfa if discovered was to go deep (deeper than the other submarine, enguage the creeper motors, and slip away while the other submarine was pinging from above.

[gerwalk]

I can field this one.
The

I can field this one.
The external hull is for sure titanium. I have it at home(will get it later), as to the depth max. If not, I can ask my Alfa driver. I know they could go deeper than conventional US subs at this the time. But not as deep as first guessed by our intel.
I know we had to design a new torpedo just to catch it, as it could out run our torpedos! I also know the tactic frequently used by the Alfa if discovered was to go deep (deeper than the other submarine, enguage the creeper motors, and slip away while the other submarine was pinging from above.

Thanks Wayne!
Did all the Alfas have the external hull made of Ti? Someone told me that the last ones had steel instead.

I still don't understand Polmar's comment on the Alfa having similar depth as the old Treshers... maybe the collapse depth was higher than those so they can dive deeper and do the trick you mentioned.

[wayne frey]

Rumor is an ugly thing.

Rumor is an ugly thing. No, they were all titanium. I have learned to be more careful. It was not until last month,someone asked about the prop material. Turns out it was titanium also.I was sure it was not. On my next letter to the Alfa driver, I will pose the question of the true depth.
As a side note,
I just got back from overseas to meet his son in Servastopol. While there I saw a Kilo, and maybe the fate of the Beluga (need to enlarge the pictures).
Unexpected, was my tour through a former secret Soviet sub pen in Balaclava. It housed the Whiskey class boats and nuclear weapons, and up to 5,000 people.All under a moutain. It had two exits, one for the harbor,one opening to the Black Sea.
It was opened to the public just last year. It is in a pretty remote spot. I doubt many have gone through it.
I could not belive they let me go through it!

[slats]

Wayne,
did they let you take

Wayne,
did they let you take pictures of the facility. Sounds like something out of Bond film but better.
Wouldn't mind dumping the wife off at the Lourve in Paris and treking up there. What you saw sounds like my sort of vacation spot.
All the best
John

[wayne frey]

I did get pictures of

I did get pictures of the sub pen. The tour is done with flashlights. Cameras take poor pictures down a long dark tunnel. I do have some of the entrance, the blast doors( yep, it had em), and one of the now empty room where the nukes where kept that came out ok. Been thinking of lashing a short story about it and submitting it to the Report, if they want it.
I very much enjoyed my trip there. Food was excellent,people friendly. I have good pointers for those really going.
By the way, the Black Sea is a beautiful, clear aqua color, and seems to be very calm waters.

[wayne frey]

Oh yea,
Took some pictures

Oh yea,
Took some pictures of some submarine missles ( I believe it was Shaddocks) for the submarine museum in Rhode Island for K-77. Somehow they knew there were some sitting outside of the naval museum in Servastopol. Sure enough, they were there. They are going to build a display of some kind based on the pictures I sent last night. One last thing, I was taken to a bar built with a submarine theme!!! Hatches for doors, that kind of stuff. It had an Oscar class model hanging from the ceiling.
Life is good!

[gerwalk]

Wayne,


That was...oh coincidence!...ME!! http://www.subcommittee.com/forum/icon_biggrin.gif I've

Wayne,
<It was not until last month,someone asked about the prop material.>

That was...oh coincidence!...ME!! I've being a little obsessed by the Alfas these days.

What a great tour to Russia!! I've seen pics of those dens from outside and I couldn't believe it but they are real!!
Thanks for sharing

[wayne frey]

E-mail me.

E-mail me.

[gerwalk]

E-mail me.
Done!!!

Thanks

E-mail me.

Done!!!

Thanks

[Guest]

I've seen many maximum depth

[quote]I've seen many maximum depth for the Alfa class subs. From the infamous 900m or more from the Hunt for the Red October flick to the Deepstorm (babelfish translation)"Submersion depth, m]
As far as I know (and I like to believe that what I know is fairly accurate ) at a submerged displacement of 4,320 tons, the Lira could achieve the depht of 900 m anytime.
The Tresher never could've gone that deep.
Both hulls are made of titanium (as opposed to Mike, where only the outer one was the case) and the speed of 40+ submerged is also a reality.
.

[wayne frey]

That speed is amazing. One

That speed is amazing. One of the Alfa's was slightly faster than the others. It was not desinged special, it was just slightly faster, by about a knot and a half.
Again, on my next letter to the Alfa driver, I will probe this area of questions. He has some pretty good stories.
Anyone have a question, ask! I have asked a ton of stuff, and am running out of questions.
This officer also instructed for several years,served on most of the nuke boats, including the Akula and Typhoons, and oversaw refits.
There are questions he will not answer, as they are still secret. I respect this.

[novagator]

Cool story Wayne, how long

Cool story Wayne, how long were you over there? You will have to send me the pics.

[wayne frey]

Only 10 days.
I have

Only 10 days.
I have quite a few pictures,bu the size is quite large off the disk. I do not know how to shrink them down on this work computer.But I can send a few at a time. Got a lot of missle shots too.....
I liked the submarine bar in Servastopol.

[gerwalk]

I've seen many maximum depth

[quote]

I've seen many maximum depth for the Alfa class subs. From the infamous 900m or more from the Hunt for the Red October flick to the Deepstorm (babelfish translation)"Submersion depth, m]
As far as I know (and I like to believe that what I know is fairly accurate ) at a submerged displacement of 4,320 tons, the Lira could achieve the depht of 900 m anytime.
The Tresher never could've gone that deep.
Both hulls are made of titanium (as opposed to Mike, where only the outer one was the case) and the speed of 40+ submerged is also a reality.
.

[color=#000000]971,
thanks for the data on the Mike. I didn't have that one! But I wonder why they made only the external hull of Titanium? It would be more logical to make the internal or pressure hull of Ti.

The Papa was also made entirely of Ti but AFAIK was even faster. Polmar says that it was the fastests SSN ever.

As for the test depth of the Liras/Alfas, I tend to beleive that the 900m or more was an american intelligence deduction but that the real figures are not that deep.

Wayne,
since you asked for more questions here I have some]