German Type 209/1400 - Request

[deamos]

I am looking for a accurate static model for the German Type 209/1400 Submarine in any scale. If anyone has information on where to aquire one of these models please respond. Any information would be great.

[gerwalk]

AFAIK there is none. Surprisingly,

AFAIK there is none. Surprisingly, or not so, the 209 is one of those subs forgoten by model companies even if it is the most widespread submarine class in the world!!
Here you can find the start up of a crusade for such a model]http://www.elsnorkel.com/esp....ICO+KIT[/url]

[anonymous]

http://www.heiszwolf.com/subs/plans/Preveze_class.jpg

[gerwalk]

Ahh!! Those Turkish 209 plans.

[color=#000000]Ahh!! Those Turkish 209 plans. Beautifull!!

BTW]

[deamos]

Thank you for the specs,

Thank you for the specs, they will hopefully be of use to our project.
-George OQuinn
Tech 1
Exponent

[anonymous]

I have an excellent drawing

I have an excellent drawing of the Tupi, a Brazilian Type 209-1400 drawing - plan, profile, sections. However this drawing was done and shared with me by the draftsman/builder John Parker in Australia. It is an excellent drawing. Before I share it, you must ask John Parker's permission first. He has already built a working R/C model of the Tupi. My drawing also is in 'dwg' format. You would need to download this program to view & work with it. This drawing is everything you need. Just photos would be needed further in your research.

The Royal Navy was said to have been dropping Mk. 46 torpedoes from their helicopters everywhere there was a contact, or a suspected contact. So much, the Royal Navy started tapping into US Navy stocks.... one of the niceties of NATO membership. The story I read was the Argentine 209 San Luis torpedo guidance wires reeling out when the torpedoes when launched were reversed! Something in the weapon control software that could not seem to be remedied at sea. Could a shipyard worker for British intelligence have sabotaged it before the San Luis went to war? We may never know...well...not till after 50 plus years at least.

HMS Spartan literally had the Argentine carrier De Mayo in her sights when the Argentine Navy transmitted the recall, sending the major Naval units back into port after the loss of the General Belgrano sunk by HMS Conqueror.

The Royal Navy employed in the enforcement of their 'total exclusion zone' around the Faulklands/Malvinas 5 SSN's, HMS Valiant, Courageous, Conqueror, Spartan, and Splendid. One Oberon SS was also employed to insert & extract SAS operatives in Argentina deep inshore using river inlets, HMS Onyx.

The SAS was never found, hidden around Argentine air bases giving early warning of Argentine Air Force take offs for strikes against the British fleet. One story goes an Argentine Army helicopter landed on a remote hill overlooking an Argentine air base, using radio direction finding equipment. The helicopter landed, troops jumped out, searched in vain without success....the troops recalled...the helicopter took off. The SAS resumed operations. The helicopter had literally landed on top of the SAS troops hidden nest! Concealed, they coolly laid low ready to slaughter everyone till the danger had past. Wow. The SAS is the oldest and the very best.

Steve Reichmuth



Edited By Dolphin on 1108436719

[gerwalk]

Steve,
First]

[color=#000000]Steve,
First]

[JWLaRue]

Steve,

I can convert the .dwg

Steve,

I can convert the .dwg files into PDFs if you'd like to be able to pass those around instead of the source material.

-Jeff

[anonymous]

The Chilean helicopter crash is

The Chilean helicopter crash is very true Gerwalk.

Your comments about the Argentinean Navy German SST-4 torpedoes sounds so much like the American problems with their Mk. 14's and their vaunted magnetic exploders before the Second World War with Japan. The faults in these fancy (then very secret) Mk -14 torpedoes and their exploders - and how the problems manifested themselves sounds so very similar to the German SST-4 problems. The accountants depriving the sub crews ....well...as they say...there is no substitute for experience. The money for testing them under realistic wartime conditions were not deemed worth the expense. History repeating itself, except the Falklands/Malvinas war did not last long enough to iron out the problems as they did in the Pacific 1941-1945.

The sabotage theory if a popular one, does not mean because it is popular, it is what actually was in fact the case. You are well informed too, and I am impressed you got out and checked those theories first hand. Good for you!

Kudos to Capitán Azcueta! He sounds like a very capable skipper.

Attaching the Tupi drawing to LaRue for conversion to PDF's. Then hopefully into a jpg format for posting for everyone here.

Steve

[gerwalk]

I had the same impression

[color=#000000]I had the same impression about the SST-4 issue and the Mk-14 problems. Bureaucreacy and accountants vs. servicemen and national security. After war the SST-4 problem was fixed and the torpedoes were tested in several instances by the newly aquired TR-1700 subs. They worked perfectly...

Also the ARA Salta (another IKL209/1200 sub) had some serious problems with the SST-4 that prevented her to go into war patrol. She was also delayed due to a noise problem associated with the anti-cavitation rubber stripes in her stern planes cable (it's a cable that connects all the stern planes and prevents the entanglement of the guiding wire from the torpedoes into the propeller) This cable never appears in the drawings but it is a very important issue (you can find it also in the new U212 german and italian subs)

The sabotage theory I can't say is not true (who can?) but is very unlikely considering all the events that lead to the 1982 war. I don't think all the torpedoes onboard the subs were put there in 1982 (for sure some of them were there well before the war) and there was no time for such an infiltration and sabotage. There was something very wrong with them and I don't agree with Norman Friedman ( Submarine Design and Development; 1984); when he says in his book that Azcueta could fix those problems while in patrol!

As for Fernando Azcueta]

[deamos]

I would love to get

I would love to get ahold of those drawings, if you can let me know where to contact the person who drew them that would be great. You can email me at goquinn@exponent.com with any info regarding this. Thank you so much for all the support you guys have given.
-George

[yabbie1]

Steve's kind words about my

[color=#000000]Steve's kind words about my Tupi drawing have just come to my attention. I consider this a real compliment having come from such an authoritive source! I am also very interested to learn that coversion to .pdf obviates the need for pemission to distribute. Having said that, am happy for the plans to be in the hands of any prospective scratch builders, but need to point out the following]

[gerwalk]

As for the tail cone]

[color=#000000]As for the tail cone]

[gerwalk]

As for the curvature of

As for the curvature of the Tupi deck. Here are some pics that seem to show that]http://www.mar.mil.br/acervo/submarinos/imagens/s30-2g.jpg[/url]

http://www.comfors.mar.mil.br/omsub/Tupi/Fotos.html

(BTW: the propeller view is amazing!! The crescent blades is accurate for this class and other modern 209s but not for the earlier 209s, they had a conventional five blade prop)