USS Parche

[JWLaRue]

I'm of the opinion that the "gondola" is right there in plain sight. It's the area forward of the sail on top of the hull. Certainly seems large enough to hold the undersea cable tapping equipment.

When taken in conjunction with the 100 foot (?) length extension, that would seem to cover it.



-Jeff

[GabesDad]

Nice photo!

[GabesDad]

If you think about it could Parche been an enlarged version of what NR-1 was?
***
I know that some things still remain classified for a long time, but it couldn't hurt to try with the Freedom of Information Act request.
***
Another thought on this the reverse missile deck as I call it on the topside. Could that been basically a gondola mounted topside?
***
Duane

Hey Duane,

If I missed your point in your first statement, please correct me. According to all sources, USS Parche was originally a full-fledged Archerfish-class attack submarine, as indicated by her hull number SSN 683. So, no, she wouldn't have been something similar to NR-1. No towing required! According to Blind Man's Bluff (BMB) she was selected by the intelligence folks because, at the time she was tapped, she was one of the newest SSNs available. It seems that the plan from the start was to modify her as necessary to support the cable-tapping mission, also according to BMB.

I think your suggestion of submitting a FOIA request is a great idea. Basically, all we want to know is what the ship's hull looked like. Not sure how to go about that to ensure the best outcome. I noticed that in Christopher Drew's bio on Wikipedia, his and Sherry Sontag's writing BMB was due in part to successful FOIA documents.

Yeah, I'm not sure what they called that superstructure. Any former Parche crewmembers here? Maybe a turtleback? From what little we (think we) know about the size and weight of the tap pods, they probably would have been deployed from the hull as close to the sea bottom as possible. BMB indicates that the second-generation pods were about 20 feet long around 6 tons, so trying to wrestle those from the top of the sub 30+ feet to the sea floor would have been rough. I'm going with the turtleback being a cover for permanent diver gas storage and perhaps storage for other equipment that was easier to handle. I still think a somewhat streamlined main gondola underneath would have been needed for transport and storage of large items.

Just an educated guess.

Terry

[navy2000]

What I was trying to say about and enlarge NR-1 is they would been similar in design on the underside of the hulls maybe. NR-1 had a gondola or underside structure on it's hull that might have been about the same for the Parche. I know that the thrusters for NR-1 would be visible while she was on the surface in which I could see when I was temporary attached to her command, but I never saw any thrusters on the Parche when she would come into San Diego sub base. So this leads to the question if the Parche had thrusters where were they located?

Yes the structure on the topside is called a turtle back, at least on the missile boats.

Duane

[gantu]

Hello found this on my harddrive.

[navy2000]

That is most likely how I will build mine. Just make what is seen and known for a fact and not worry about what may or may not be on the underside. I think that just doing what we know will still make many modelers look and hopefully admire the model when being showed any where and when running in the water.

I know I will have to do some major work on the sail such as moving the fairwater planes higher and also the sonar windo located on the forward portion of the sail will have to be adjusted to look like it does in photos.

Duane

[secrtwpn1]

Here's a photo I found, somewhere, I believe its a SC member

[Ralph --- SSBN 598]

I was looking at USS Halibut info and came across this web site.

http://www.hisutton.com/USS_Parche.html

[wlambing]

Yes, that I former SR4 member, Chris Nutting's boat.

Bill

[tom dougherty]

It is unclear how much of Hal Sutton’s write up is based on facts and how much is speculation. I like Hal’s site very much and enjoy his writing. But the Covert Shores Parche page with the much discussed drawing at the start of this thread has written information describing the interior layout of Parche that is not available elsewhere. Some makes sense (interior saturation diving chamber, launch area for ROVs), but how this would be laid out is highly speculative. I would expect that a circa 1990 overhaul would have more sophisticated and possibly quite a bit smaller ROVs. Certainly the Univac 1224 computer of Halibut was replaced with something smaller and more powerful. But the details are not now available in the open literature. So I think Hal did a fair amount of extrapolation in his design. I also note that Hal is a U.K. citizen, so it is unlikely he has some special insights into Parche internal details. Again not at all a criticism of his work with Covert Shores; he has to extrapolate some aspects of leading edge technology.

My own view is if naval architects were given the task to design a 100 foot hull extension for Parche, they would endeavor to make it as integrated as possible with the existing submarine. This is exactly what happened a decade later with the extension of SSN-23, Jimmy Carter. We have several photos of her at EB, and there is no large gondola extension. Just a smooth 100 foot hull extension. In Parche’s conversion case, they were able to remove a lot of external equipment and bring the functions into the hull. They would need to address thruster installation since there was no deck superstructure such as on Halibut or Seawolf. Possibly in the forward and aft ballast tanks?? But that is speculation on my part.

In addition to ballast tank vent issues a large gondola would entail, dry docking the submarine with a centerline gondola would be an interesting challenge. So the debate goes on.

[GabesDad]

Deleted by writer 9/7/2022. See follow-on post of same date below.

[navy2000]

Any views of the aft half of the sub with the Gondolas?

Duane

[sea wolf]

look at any submarine in dry dock and then tell me why a full length gondola wouldn't work. sure you can skip a few feet of staging blocks but thats about it.

As for a FOIA request. Good luck. I have several from NSA CIA and the Navy requesting information on the mods made... all declined. I have even had a gentleman from the Pentagon show up at my work over one request.
Why?

To remind me of all the paper work I signed when I was stationed on these boats and worked with this project.

[GabesDad]

Sea Wolf,

The reason I've suspended posts on this topic is that I, too, have submitted a FOIA request to NAVSEA, seeking declassification of some of Parche's hull plans. My justification was that the ship's basic hull design is more than 50 years old, the ship itself has been decommissioned and turned into razor blades, and her final missions were 20 years ago. The ship no longer exists, the technology is obsolete, and declassifying Parche's external hull plan doesn't compromise the data or methods of her former or current missions. However, some classification systems are like self-licking ice cream cones. Once the information is classified, no one ever questions the need for declassifying what clearly no longer constitutes a threat to national security. However, the NURO programs were probably exempt from automatic downgrading and declassification, so these reviews will probably never occur. I also noted in my request that I would not wish to compromise any information that relates to ongoing programs that would simply be unthinkable. So far, I haven't even received an acknowledgement that the request was received.

And, as you noted, I don't want that "visit" simply because of reasoned conjectures about the ship's design.

Terry

[sea wolf]

I agree , the stuff is old.

Sad part is most of plans, prints and paper work I dealt with had a single word on it... "endless". I asked what this was referring too and I was told it would NEVER be downgraded / declassified. I hope you get luckier.

My best answer would be try and find a "Piping Tab" for the boat. These were training aids for crew members and show much more detail then you would think ( that's were the diagram from the halibut form an earlier post came from). These thing were labeled "for government use only" and really didn't have a real security clearance assigned to them.

These do turn up on ebay once in a while but have never seen one for seawolf or parch ever listed.

As for a FOIA request ,Here is one I got for the SEAWOLF SSN 575.. pretty much sums all the request i got back